clearing the air |
| Written by Patrick. (07/03-2003) |
| I feel I need to explain things to everyone here. I have British blood in my veins. I also have Irish blood in my veins. I have always claimed the Irish over all. I am a Protestant and my wife is Catholic. I came to this very site one day and joined the discussion with Brian, Charlotte, Ryan, and Sean. I had always thought that the fighting in Ireland was between the Catholics and Protestants. That is what our government wants us to hear. As I learned more about the Opression and the Civil rights violations, I started digging. Its been quite interesting finding out the history of how this all got started. I decided to start my own webpage dedicated to letting people know the TRUTHS and FACTS about the REAL fighting in Ireland. Bjorn was kind enough to link it to his great site. It is not filled with lies or twisted facts as a few people are trying to make it sound like. If you ask me a question, I will try and give you an honest answer. I wont side-step the issues. Peacemaker, You want to stand on your soap box and beat your fists and (yes)Pontificate. Guess what? Be prepared for a few flying tomatoes. You can twist things around all you want. The Irish will just Untwist them until we are a nation once again. That said, I would like to hear from EVERYONE what they think the REAL fighting in Ireland is all about. SAOIRSE! |
hi |
| Written by doole. (07/03-2003) |
| i just wan to say 1 thing UP THE RA |
peacemaker |
| Written by Patrick. (07/03-2003) |
| I see that the typical "arrogant stuffed-shirt" has once again avoided my question. Is it because he loves to dance around the subject and start his "divide and destroy" tactics like his ancestors? I may have been off-target time wise about the voting rights, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen, and definately does not make me a Liar. Also, so very typical of the British, are their embaressment about using their real names. Peacemaker, hmmm.... kind of an oxy-moron. Voting rights were just one of a few topics I chose to show the oppression that the Irish have endured from the unwanted invaders. So, Once again, Stop avoiding my question.... What do you think the REAL fighting in Ireland is all about? SAOIRSE! P.S. I will give you a hint on the answer....Answer this question as well Q. What is the proclamation of 1916 all about? |
Alright, then what? |
| Written by Brian. (07/03-2003) |
| All but the truly hateful and so-blinded can see that a United Ireland is soon to be. All of you that are sitting on the fence, who can't find it in yourselves to favor one thing or the other (I don't mean prejudice or bigotry, I mean having the commitment, the courage and the fortitude to stand for something) or to find something good to say.... When Ireland is a country all to itself, then what of the loyalists? If they don't move out (literally), then where will their loyalty lie? Will it lie with the government of Britain? Will they not then swear loyalty to the country they choose to live in? Will they become armed, and commit violent crimes against people in their own home towns, wearing civilian clothing and not representing formal military organisations? Will they not then be terrorists? How should they be dealt with? Should the new government start from square one, and be allowed to "evolve" for 800+ years of organised, sanctioned and legal prejudice? Should they be intermed for nothing other than suspicion? Or is it only then that by-gones should be by-gones? Will the republicans be expected to live and rule in the way that they had pleaded Britain to do for more than 800 years? Disarmament? Not a problem. 100% disarmament on both sides, simultaneously. Set a date. No more military or paras of any kind representing either side as of... (name a date). Hey, works for me! Ireland is completely released from all obligations and all governmental relations and mandated ties to the foreign power of Britain. Independence was never represented as being the cure to all evils of the world, prejudice and bigotry included. At least the problems will belong to the Irish people, as will the solutions and the law and the enforcement. No more foreign military, no more foreign government. The notoriously criminal bastards finally left countless countries they similarly conquered and suffocated for centuries... it will soon be Ireland's turn. That beautiful lady will soon take breaths of her own, filling her own lungs with her own power... feeling the sunlight through her hair... feeling the life-blood of her people soaring through her veins. Life, true life, is a spirited struggle... it's not a heaven on earth. SAORISE will be life, it will be that spirited struggle, that worthwhile quest for meaningful existence.... without dominance! Some people just don't get it, and they clearly never will. The hate I see and hear on this site, from both sides, isn't representative of the entire population or Ireland, and it isn't representative of what the new Ireland of 32 counties will be like. That's just more nay-sayers and people wishing us continued ill... and those wishing beyond hope that a united Ireland will fail. It's alright for you hate and venom-filled bastards. It's alright for you doubtful, negative, defeated thinkers. The greatness of Ireland, the whole of Ireland, will inspire us all (including you). |
A Breath of Peace by Adrian Fox |
| Written by Bjorn Verified user. (07/03-2003) |
| This song is for all the violent dead Who know eternal peace United Forever for all the families Who grieve the slaughtered fleece. Ulsterman rise from your knees and Feel this peaceful breeze Hope uniting hearts and minds with Forgiving Irish ease. Weep no more the violent dead Lay flowered prayer on eternal beds Inhale this peace into your lungs No more bullets no more guns. And your breath will fall upon Ireland And you will know that breath of peace Is yours. Death comes to us all like A bullet to the head. Life come to us all with The aftertaste of lead. So take take that hatred from your heart And recognise your brother and your father That that bitterness from your throat And spit it to the gutter, Knowing that you have cut down innocent sons and daughters Then your filth will filter through Polluted Irish waters, And your breath will fall upon Ireland And you will know that breath of peace Is yours. |
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it... |
| Written by Charlotte Verified user. (07/03-2003) |
| IRA killed, INLA killed, UVF killed, the Brits killed, UFF killed, are we actually going to count the deads? Will we try to decide who's the most innocent one by asserting "he killed more than I did!"? Is that what you want to do? Well, let's do so, count both sides' deaths. Who paid more than the other? Which one is the greatest victim? Come on, guys, is that serious??? I hope it's not. This is so meaningless. Unity, Freedom and Peace... That's all I have to say now. Slan go foill |
One true voice |
| Written by Genny. (07/03-2003) |
| IRA Confirmed Kills: total 1778 and growing. Civilians 642 Army/RAF/RN/TA 456 RUC/RUCR 273 UDR/RIR 182 IRA/other republicans 162 Loyalists 28 Prison Service 23 GARD/Irish Army 7 GB Police 5 seems that the total of civilians and their own republicans and garda add up to around half of all theyve killed. So just who are you fighting? Your war is not just and your so called fallen heroes burn in hell for their sins! Some other injustices: Enquiries into all killings of terrorists i.e. Bloody Sunday costing over 100 m,(all british tax payers monet im sure)Yet victims of I.R.A. violence ignored. (How about getting ireland to pay for those enquires) Members of the Republic of Ireland with Businesses in Northern Ireland,allowed to vote in our elections Sinn Fein/I.R.A. are always demanding an apology for 'BLOODY SUNDAY',it seems to fail their memory that they committed 'BLOODY FRIDAY',plus many other Atrocities,for which they had never expressed remorse,A fact many politicians should well remember,in years ahead. Dont forget this - Gery Adams, you were the man behind bloody friday. Talk of the children of ireland. According to one report 30 children lost mothers as a result of the attack in Omagh. An attack republicans are responsible for. What sort of people wont show any remorse or condemn such actions. In the bible it says thou shalt not kill. Gerry, Martin and many other folk in the IRA will one day sit at the foot of the lord. they will be judged and they WILL burn in hell. Yet back on mother earth republicans will remembe them as heroes. TRUTH has a way of getting out through history, in years the TRUTH will com out and SIN Fein/IRA will be exposed as the barbaric cowards they really are! |
Im one of those out of ireland readers you talked of peacemaker |
| Written by Irish American (not an ira sinn/fein supporter). (07/03-2003) |
| Thank you peacemaker, before having read your comments i would have taken patricks inaccuracies at face value. Glad your in there to ballance things up. Yes, you are unionist, but for that i will not hate you. i will hate you when you support any organisation that murders i.e. (sinn feinn/ira, inla, uvf, uff etc) i dont think you support any of these. On the other hand patrick is a disgrace, such inaccuracies should not be ignored and anyone seeking a true and justified united ireland should not need such lies. i draw you all to this point! I am irish and i cant wait till united ireland is. BUT! Bigoted Irish Republicans should be ashamed of themselves, for year's they have refused to recognise the great sacrifice played by their fellow country men. Do they hate the Protestant and British people so much that they refuse to remember their very own dead. On remembrance Sunday you will see very few Catholics wear a Poppy because extremist's like sinnfein/ira would make them pay a heavy price for as they would see it treachery. Unlike SinnFein IRA, INLA, CIRA these where real soldier's in a real war, they had courage beyond belief and paid the ultimate sacrifice. |
Lets spread a litle humour to ye fenians |
| Written by The Queen. (07/03-2003) |
| A loyal band of Orangemen from Ulster’s lovely land, They could not march upon the twelfth, processions were all banned, So they flew off to the Middle East this dreadful law to dodge And they founded in Jerusalem the Arab Orange Lodge. Big Ali Bey who charmed the snakes he was the first recruit John James McKeag from Portglenone taught him to play the flute And as the oul’ Pied Piper was once followed by the rats There followed Ali from the lodge ten snakes in bowler hats. They made a martial picture as they marched along the shore It stirred the blood when Ali played "The Fez my Father Wore". And Youssef Ben Mohammad hit the lambeg such a bash He scared the living daylights from a camel in a sash. Now the movement spread both far and wide, there were lodges by the score The "Jerusalem Purple Hero’s" was the first of many more The "Loyal Sons of Djeddah" and the "Mecca Shining Star" And the "Rising Sons of Jerricho" who came by motor car. The banners too were wonderful and some would make you smile King Billy on a camel as he splashed across the Nile But the Tyre and Sidon temperance had the best one of them all For they had a lovely picture of Damascus Orange Hall. The "Apprentice Boys of Amman" marched beneath the blazing sun The Royal Black Preceptory were Negro’s every one And the Lodges came from Egypt, from the Abu Simbel Falls And they shouted "No Surrender" and "We’ll guard old Cairo’s walls". But when the ban was lifted and the lodges marched at last The Arabs all decided to march right through Belfast And they caused a lot of trouble before they got afloat For they couldn’t get their camels on the bloody Heysham boat. Now the camels choked up Liverpool and the camels blocked Stranraer And the Sheikh of Abu Dhabi came in a brand new car But the "Easter Magic LOL" they worked a crafty move They used their magic carpets and they flew to Aldergrove. When they came to castle junction where once stood the wee kiosk They dug up Royal Avenue to build a giant mosque And Devlin says to Gerry Fitt, "I think we’d better go, There’s half a million camels coming down from Sandy Row". The speeches at the field that day were really something new For some were made in Arabic and some were in Hebrew But just as the Libyan Colonel got up to sing the Queen I woke up in my bed at home and found it was a dream. |
charlotte |
| Written by peacemaker. (07/03-2003) |
| Dear charlotte, i have never denied ireland will be united once again. But, how can you expect us to live in ireland with the ira roaming the streets enforcing their own laws. if you expect us to give up the army and soldiers you must do the same!! |
To the Queen |
| Written by Charlotte Verified user. (07/03-2003) |
| They do feel at home today, they will when you fuck off out of Ireland. Then we will spend a few years cleaning up each spot you've put your foot on. And after those few years, finally living in peace, and as you will be dead, we will remember you and say "for sure, she's down the Hell, her and all the people who acted like she did". Proudly, freely, my children will walk on a land that actually belong to them... and they will never think of you again. Slan go foill |
Peacemaker |
| Written by Charlotte Verified user. (07/03-2003) |
| Just as a piece of information, I am French. You accuse Patrick of being a liar. Right. He might have said a few things which aren't really exact. Let's not be like children. We could spend years comparing offense and damages made to one another. So many things happen during 800 years. The Brits did that, the IRA did this. And then we will be crying "He hit me first!". You want to talk about facts, right. Let's talk about facts. But let's stop doing so in that childish attitude. I will tell you about one single fact. The only fact that can't be discussed nor compared. Let's talk about the only fact that actually matters. Nothern IRELAND, North of Ireland. Did the coin drop in? No? Alright, I do explain. What can't be discussed is that the Irish have a right to the ownership of Ireland. France is ruled by the French, England is ruled by the English, America by the Americans, Belgium by the Belgians, Italy by the Italians, etc... Therefore Ireland, whole Ireland, should be ruled by the Irish. You see? There's nothing to argue about. Finally, it's just a matter of logic. Slan go foill |
Dear Patrick and Brian |
| Written by The Queen. (07/03-2003) |
| Oh how my family has enjoyed piping you up the ass for some 800 years now. Like how i love wiping my arse with the irish flag you love so much. You will always live in our shadow. And how i love my wee visits to the north, when i visit my loyal subjects. Philip said to me the other night - Why are we in Ireland? I told him - Our ancestors invaded there to extend our once tremendous empire. And dont you love the look on the little fenians faces when we visit. i also told him ireland will be united soon. He said to me that may be so my queen, but our loyal subjects will ensure that the fenians never settle down in the north. they will have to lock their doors, keep their heads low and prey that the next bullet they hear isnt coming their way! Never shall they live in peace. the brave loyals of the north will fight a guerilla campaign for another 800 years. The fenians will never truely feel at home! |
prooved you a liar patrick. |
| Written by peacemaker. (07/03-2003) |
| seems to me you cant proove me wrong on any of my points. Did you not lie about the voting situation here. Therefore were you not trying to mislead readers. Im sure there are some readers from other countries who read these pages. You would have them believe only one caholic familys vote is equal to one protestant individuals vote. May i let the readers know this was a tremendous lie. You would have them believe the british arent disarming in this country. that is also a lie. You would have them believe the british who live in ireland NOW are invaders. this is also not true. most of our great grandparents were born here, but yes our ancestors hundreds of years ago were invaders. Do you intend to keep punishing every descendant of those who invaded hundreds of years ago. you also use the word pontificate a lot. this would imply im talking in a dogmatic or pompass manner. What i talk is present day facts, like it or lump it. what you talk is lies, trying to make people believe your lies. To any out of ireland readers, i promise you i will ensure both sides of the storey are told. I will challenge every lie that is told, and i will have you read facts, not some mumbo jumbo that is wrote out of pure hatred. You should all watch the news. there are the facts. The british are dismantleing bases, the number of army is decreasing, and catholics DO have equal rights. so lets sum up. you honestly expect hundreds of thousands to pack up and move, im afraid this is probably impossible, and practically rediculous. Another thing, you write on this site, which is obviously simpathised on by republicans. Is this because you want suport for everything you say like you are some high and mighty lecturer. Seems to me you cant handle it when someone like myself doesnt bow down to your lies and challenges your idiotic lies. |
Compromise |
| Written by Brian. (06/03-2003) |
| Wow, all these self-proclaimed experts are very overwhelming. One guys says he's from here, another guy says he's from there. One other says he was here and now he's there. Another one says some of his best friends are from there. Whatever. Compromise. Hmmmm..... OK, let me see... one country invades another. They maintain a military presence for 800+ years. They deliberately populate the area with their people. Those people breed and multiply for 800 years. Now, they're called supporters of one kind or another. Since their lines have been there for those centuries, they call themselves Irish. Cool! One country illegally invades another, moves in, and claims nationalization. Impressive. Then, after 800+ years of untold versions, methods and instances of organized, legal and processed oppression and surpression, they claim that they have some sort of majority and that their "say" should count. OK, so then the invaded society (they weren't invaded in the wilderness somewhere, they were invaded right in their very own well-populated home towns) takes up arms. Numerous organisations (large and small) are thrown together, Sinn Fein being one of them. Atrocities abound, action and reaction. Alrightee, so we'll make believe there is equal responsibilities and that they somehow cancel each other out. So now the invading party is upset about the inherent population taking up arms, and they think that those armed groups should agree to completely disarm (while there are some 43 ARMED military bases from the invaders still in-country).. and to do this as some sort of "show" of compromise. Gotcha. Oh yeah, and since the armed parties of the inherent Irish in the north are not a government-sponsored, supplied and uniformed force (that's because the effective government for the past centuries has been the government of the invading forces), then they are labeled as terrorists. Right, and since their armed actions take place in the surburban areas (that's precisely the areas that are taken over and inhabited by the invaders), and since those invaders have brought HUMAN SHIELDS with them (raised families and domiciled them right there in the towns they had invaded and taken over), then there are further labels of terrorism. Wow, what a set of circumstances. Interesting how the Brit supporters reach back, forth and sideways for random supporting instances and documents. Me? I'm thinking that everyone needs to go back to their own home. Then everyone can decide in what country they want to live (so long as they swear allegiance to that country's "constitution" and governemt so to speak). So, the British armies, the british and their supporters move back to Britain if they wish to remain loyal to them. Irish people and people who want to have allegiance to an Ireland run for and by the Irish (not the Brits who claim to be Irish) can stay. Well, maybe I'm not one of those self-proclaimed experts. I don't want to hear about the compromises, the present Falls Road versus the past, the atrocities on both sides, Bush, Iraq, WWII, and the price of tea in China. Stick to the issue at hand, with such dividing diversions. SAOIRSE, that's not a quote or a statement of allegiance to any group or organisation. It's a word, it's translation is "Freedom". In this case, it's freedom from Britain's ruling hand. Then, someone keeps injecting issues which continue to divide us. These issues are NOT inherent to this original concern. Why Ireland didn't fight in WWII, why Hussein should be voted humanitarian of the year, why Bush should be crucified because he wants the UN to enforce the 12 years of violations and 30 years' of atrocities against humanity and the well-documented existence of weaponry that Iraq denies and is well-inclined to trade with other hostile/terrorist organizations which will be used against the civilized world..... whatever... all those issues serve to highlight our differences instead of concentrating on our commonalities (which is our primary interest of Unity and Freedom in the 32 counties). |
peacemaker |
| Written by Patrick. (06/03-2003) |
| Like I said, Its easy to look down your long nose and pontificate. You still havent answered MY question... What do you think the REAL fighting in Ireland is all about? What do you think the Proclamation of 1916 was all about? Why have so many people needlessly died? You say that there are 43 British army bases? Thats 43 TOO MANY. There is nothing here to compromise. The IRA will all go to their graves until every last Brit is gone. The Britsh are NOT welcome. As far as SAOIRSE (Irish Freedom) That does not include the Brits. If you are not part of the solution, You are part of the problem. I see the British in Ireland a BIG problem. SAOIRSE! |
sorry patrick i near forgot |
| Written by peacemaker. (06/03-2003) |
| i thought it wasnt a religeon thing. I quote from you again "Do you think its fair that each Protestant counts as a single vote while each Catholic "family" counts as a single vote" (A statement which is entirely untrue) You probably should have wrote this in past tense! going back quite a few years! It appears to me that you based this statement around religeon. Dont contradict yourself! At least ive shown im prepared to comprimise and obviously you're not!! |