I hope I'll be ready to settle over in about three years, ye know little scottish soldier, things need time

Charlotte, keep youre shirt on, their arguments prove the right of our own

or do you have some good arguments, why the british pandemic should stay in Ireland@Rab and Lan?

Its Ian Paisley who prevents peace in NI...

Fionas,
I didn't intend to take off my shirt...

Slan agat

hey, have it out of a dictionary, meant that you shouldn't get into a tizzy about Lan and Rab

I think there's no more need to answer them...

i think this thread is nonsense to begin with.
people do not accept the situation, they have different visions of the future, so they fight. when they are not able to fight openly they go underground and do some bombs. you can't stop that by saying 'why attack BI?'.
some talk of hearing the different opinion, but IMO this is not a matter of opinion. like 'in my opinion BI are not bad guys' and 'in my opinion i will do some shooting and some bomb triggering'. i do not consider one side 'evil' and the other 'right'. it's just a conflict. however i admire one side over the other because of their motivation, determination, courage and self-sacrifice. and surely it is a fight for freedom, even tho minority's fight for freedom still you can't deny that this is definitely the situation of the enslaver and enslaved.
bloodshed is the worst thing, and i don't think i would ever go kill someone, situations similar to Palestine lead to country's becoming the cradle of sick brutal killers without any remains of culture or morality. but if someone chooses the way of the gun, i just accept the fact and don't go spamming and flaming over the variations of 'why attack BI?'


(if some say i should shut up 'cause i never were to Ireland, they probably right, tho i'm closely acquainted with similar conflicts)

adutis, 1991?

adutis, you're right, and I think that's the point we all have lost...

LAN' I don't think you have any right to come here and tell new members that the only people that use this forum are "wanna be activists". You're in no position whatsoever to make presumptions like that. I don't need to prove anything to you, but if you want me to explain to you how I am not a "wanna be activist" I'd only be too happy to do so, as I'm sure others would. We too have no reason to take cover from what only amount to veiled insults on your part.

Of course according to LAN' it's ok for Rab to voice his opinions "loud and clear", but once a Republican does so he's deemed a biggot, a loud-mouth, clueless about the situtation, living in the past. Double standards as per usual, but I would expect no less.

And another thing, Rab, you say that the BA (bent arses) only follow the orders they are given...

...wasnt that the same excuse the Nazi POWs gave?


And LAN, I agree with you more so than anyone else on this board, but dont make the mistake of branding us all wannabe activists or people who live a million miles away.

I dont live a million miles away, nor do I want to be an IRA activist. I'd rather do things politically. I dont speak for everyone else though.

There's still a lot of shouting down here. People clearly aren't reading posts properly before responding. Some people have made some really good points, and very eloquently too.

Others are ranting and making no sense at all. Some know a lot and some know fuck all. In most (not all) cases the ones who know the least say the most.

Please, please, please think about what you post. Read other peoples posts properly and show some respect !

It's great we have a diversity of opinion on here despite wanting the same end result.

Lan and Rab have as much right to post here and they make some nice points.

As I keep saying, just because they say something you don't agree with does that make them wrong ?

Express your opinions bhoys and ghirls, and respect those of others. (Are we taking ourselves a bit too seriously?)

Our day will come.

ps. Patrick whats the difference between a prison and a jail ?

PS : about the minority thing, do not misunderstand what I said. I was not justifying anything about the nazis or whatever.

It only illustrates many fair causes like the equality between Black and Whites and end of segregation in US, or to give a French example, the end of Death penalty (decided by President Mitterand against the will of the people)

I rest my case

Fianna.

So you believe in violence, even if you are in the minority? Not all Republicans believe in violence as a means to achieve their aims.

I am a Republican as you are. I will hope that I will one day see a united Ireland.

The difference between you and me is that I can accept the majority decision if people want that. I will always vote and raise my hand for Republicanism but I will not raise my hand covered in blood of others, basically because thay disagree with me.

Where do you have the right to promote violence when most around you do not want it?

Agreement and Disagreement is part of life. It is with us everywhere, in our homes at school at work and in government.

So what you are saying is that if you do not agree with the majority, all you have to offer is the fist, gun and the bomb. Do you really believe that these are the tools that are required to build a peaceful, united Ireland. I do not think so. You are really wrong, I believe you are mis-guided or mis-led. Nearly all Republicans, whether they are living abroad or at home would disagree with you.

I can and I am willing to understand the feelings of bothsides. I may disagree mostly in favour of Republican ideals. But I will disagree by argumentation adn discussiom.

I may even agree with some points that the unionists have to say. They do have some concrete points (DON'T THEY). I do not believe in the " I want it my way or else attitude" I believe in finding a solution. This will only come about if people are willing to find a middle ground through argumentation and discussion.

You state that I am in no position to state anything. Well I am happy to disagree with you again.

As you know I am originally from Dublin. I lived and worked in Belfast for nearly 3 years and now I am living and working in London. Through just that I have more than enough experience, more than you. I believe.

I have seen the perception from all three sides. I should not forget a fourth side. The foreigners and wanna be or would like to be Irish living far away. Far away from reality.


Charlotte

If anyone should open their eyes, then I think you should. I accept your opinions fully, however I have that right (I HOPE in your view) to disagree.

You for one, as a foreigner should have a neutral opinion in trying to understand the situation in NI.

You have taken a route and made a decision in favour of Republicanism. But on what basis? What facts? The facts you read are in in pro republican or pro unionist books and websites etc. You will really only know if you live amongst the people of all sides and learn their ways, how they think and how they communicate.

How is that you can condemn one side and hail another?

You hope to come and live in Ireland. Good for you. I can understand, Ireland is a wonderful place. I also wish you loads of luck with your french teaching.

But once you are over in Ireland, accept all who live on this Isle as equal. You are and you will always be a guest. The people of this isle, whether they are unionist or republican, will be your host.

Fionnas

I do not think that you can compare Northern Ireland with that of the Nazis etc. This plain silly argumentation with no connenction or facts. When you aim to argue then argue on a solid foundation and not on air mattress, submerged in water.

You can compare the situation in NI more closely with that of Spain and the Basque Region for example.

Your historical quotes are quite wrong and you cannot compare them in any way with NI. We are not in 1100 but in 2004.

Are witches still burnt today. NO

Christians never put Jews to the stake. If anything it was Catholics who put Protestants to the stake, i.e. in France and in Germany.
Again hundreds of years ago. Is this still happening today NO.

No the Nazis did not have the right to kill Jews. Question is rather. Are the Germans still killing Jews today. NO. Germany is an open, multicultural society.

I do not think you can try and compare The UK Government with that of the Nazis. If any comparison is necessary then the closest in Europe would have been Franco or Mussolini.

The same you could say about Ireland past and future.

Are Catholics and Protestants still killing each other?
Will Ireland be united through the will of it"s people.
Will Ireland be at peace with all its people?

Charlotte

Sorry, if you were thinking I was having a go at you and your nationality. I am not. I was just trying to put a point across.

You say that in Ireland there are the real Irish and the English/British Irish. Well, if you went to NI you would quickly understand what I am trying to get at.

Putting my point across as simple as possible (Black and White):

The Unionists see themselves as Irish or Scot-Irish, but also British.

The Republicans see themselves as Irish, but do not see themselves as being British.

The problem is that there is a very thin line of grey. If continued peace is to be established. This thin grey line will need to be broader. I hope with time that this will be the case.

I am not saying you know nothing about Ireland, the contrary. I believe you know more than many of my own countrymen. You know the reasons behind the problems, the history, bloodshed, religion and the politics. Yes and I agree, we have spoken about this many times before and I agree we do not need to emphasise on that.

What I am saying have more to do with life and experience.

You can state that French Cuisine is better than Italian, but you will never really know until you have tasted the difference. At the moment you have tasted only the French. You get what I mean?

I believe you are a Republican and yes I also believe that you really intend to come to Ireland and settle. I admit that I did not believe you in the beginning, when we first spoke. I thought that what you were saying was verbal dire. Now having read many of your posts I have changed my opinion about you considerably.

But being a good Republican does not automatically mean condemning others, for what they believe in. I see myself as a Republican. I have no connection to the Queen, to England and the UK. But I understand the position of the unionists. I had to live and work amongst them.

The main point is that I do not see a Black & White solution for Ireland, as many for example see. i.e Fianna or Noel. I wish to see that Black and White merge to grey. If that happens then we will all have a chance of seeing a united Ireland.

Apology for the �Wannabe Activist� statement.

I did not mean to imply this to everyone on the forum. My mistake, more like a type and communication error. This happens when someone like myself writes long replies.

What I intended to originally mean by that statement is as follows.

There are a lot of wannabe activists on this forum, who make a lot of noise and really do not understand the facts and do not really understand what they are saying when they scream for blood etc.

To those who are genuine activists I hope you accept my apology.

The BAs presence in Northern-Ireland is ILLEGAL! Hence all the orders are that too!

Exactly...

Agreeing with NAICOU and Chrisybhoy.
RAB will you always hide behind you orders or will you finally hear your conscience's voice (I guess you have one, don't you?)

LAN,
was it some kind of apology?

Seriously, an interesting post I'll try to answer as well as possible.

By the same law that would make the presence in UK of the Irish Army illegal

LAN', I've never once stated that violence was a prerequisite of Republicanism, and the fact that you thought I said so shows how little you consider other peoples posts and opinions and jump to conclusions. I only look on your posts now as being even more worthless. And long...

Our homes and schools aren't being occupied by an armed force LAN'. The disagreement in the Six Counties is alot different from everyday disagreements, so saying that I have nothing to offer but violence when I disagree with something is another ridiculous statement courtesy of your good self.

And LAN' I know for a fact I have more experience as a Republican in my short years than you have had in your entire life. So you�re from Dublin and you lived in Belfast. Give the man a medal, he�s been through the troubles. We can chat anytime and discuss what you and I have done for Republicanism if you need me to prove it to you, but until then I'm not going to let you publicly say that I have no experience in the situation.

Noel, (Quote)
You don't seem to realise that the reason for the troubles in Ireland is the british occupation of Ireland and until we are free there will be no peace. You think that we can just settle like the PIRA for half (not even half) of what we are entitled to. I think you are living in a dream land. Those who claim to be british can go back to britian as far as im concerned. Those who claim to be british but want to live in Ireland can stay as long as they accept that they are Irish and no other, that is the only way we will achieve peace.
I couldnt have said it better myself.
Fianna, (Quote)
What have you got against foreigners giving their opinions on this board? I believe I know why. You fear that they will look upon the situation with a completely open mind, a clear conscience, not having been influenced by either side. And with this open mind, as has been shown here, they will fall on the Republican side (which I agree with Noel is clearly not your side). Maybe by "far away from reality" you mean far away from the British black propaganda that is continually pumped into the minds of Irish people both sides of the border, ably assisted by an all too willing Free State government and an indifferent, selfish population.
Quite true indeed.
Charlotte, (Quote)
I condemn injustice. I think everyone has this right. I condemn people like RAB who think they can call themselves Republicans (a wannabe activist??) and yet work for the Army that caused all the troubles and the government who sent them. But they have to know that being in the British Army and accepting to be sent to Ireland is acting against Ireland, therefore, not only should they be considered as enemies, but they are. I'm afraid it's only a fact.
Facts are Facts.
You all think things over and are very diplomatic and fair about your responses. I myself, wouldnt use the 'tact' that you have shown.
After the stupid threats of infecting this forum with a virus, and all of his alter-egos, I said that I would not reply to LAN(or whoever he wakes up as). I monitor these threads everday like all of you do, but every once in awhile, I get fed-up with the shite that appears and I end up losing my temper and shooting my mouth off. I agree with what each of you have said, But would still like to drag RAB out back and get a little 'Mid-evil' on his ass. I keep hearing the Wolftones 'Rifles of the IRA' when I think about it. I am glad I am not in your government as I would declare some pretty 'drastic' measures to remove the 'Illegal and Immoral' British Influence.
You people are the future of Ireland. You have your heads screwed on straight. The Unification of Ireland is possible.

Well lets get things in perspective shall we.

Lan IS Irish. Thats a fact. Therefore I value his opinion.

You cannot sit in the mid-west of the USA and decide who is and who isn't a republican. Threatening to pistol whip someone who is thousands of miles away, just isn't on. That doesnt make you a republican, in my book it makes you a twat.

Patrick, if the real Ireland was how you perceive it we'd all be chasing those crocks of gold at the end of the rainbow. How can you poo poo the opinions of someone who is Irish, was born there, worked there etc.

Actions speak louder than words its true. But you do nothing and your words are shite. You have repeatedly shown nothing but ignorance of the real issues of republicanism in a 21st century scenario, yet you stand in judgement of those on here who clearly have studied the subject.

Oh dear, aren't I making myself unpopular !

I still plead with members of this forum to have an open mind. All members have a right to air their views. Apologies if I caused any offence but I've seen enough.

Chuky, you're not only offending Patrik with this post, your offending Charlotte, Sean, me and all the others who aren't living in Ireland with it, too!

I think only because someone is born in a land, he didn't have the right to say "You're not from here, you didn't have the right to say anything" or "I'm from here, I know more about"

maybe it is so, but only maybe...

In my opinion its racist to say things like that, the next step is to throw stones at moslems and jews...
here in germany we're teached extremly about the things that happened in WorldWar 2 at school, so I think in this point I know exactly about what I'm speaking...

You belong to a land, when you love it, not only when you live there...
yeah, when you're living there, too
but you have to accept that your land is there, where your heart is living, not where your body is...

and sometimes one word is a stronger action, than to kill 1000 men...

Though born here in this land
My heart is in Ireland

You know, Chucky is partly right.
BUT!
If you think so, dear faraway frind, give us your vision of what kind of help we can do.
C'mon, I respect your oppinion... yet...

No I dont mean offence to you because you weren't born in Ireland because neither was I. I object to people who aren't prepare to learn yet criticise those who can teach them the truth.

You(Fionas) Charlotte, Sean and all those in other countries are more than welcome here, and your contributions I enjoy.

We all have stuff to learn ! Especially me.

Furthermore I am definitely NOT racist. As my parents came here to England as economic migrants from an oppressed Irish Free State how can I be racist ? I am the son of assylum seekers.

Sean my only advice is to go to Ireland and enjoy it.

If we could only harness the power generated by Wolfe Tone as he spins in his grave if he ever heard of Irishmen and women dismissing the opinions and experiences of "non-natives", "foreigners" or whatever you want to call them.

What would the Republican movement be were it not for outside help?

Dead and buried long ago I'm sure.

Sl�n

Chucky Armagh, good idea... I shall not die before I do it. But... If I'm immortal?

then you would be a scott and named McLeod

I understood you are talkin' bout Chris Lambert only after ChrisyBhoy
's post...
Adrian Paul is much more popular here

I am not going to answer some of the previous statements that were aimed at me or were caused through my posts.

The general statement on the fourum is that the BA are illegal occupiers of NI.

Deep in my heart I feel the same way. But in reality they are not.

Werewolf

You state in your last post that the BA is illegal and that the majority of Ireland wants to see the back of them.

You are right if you say the whole of Ireland. A united Ireland.

But we find ourselves unfortunately in a split Ireland. An Ireland that consists of a North and a South.

The North wants to remain British. That was proven in the last general election a few weeks ago in which all (Republican and Unionist had the chance to vote).

If the majority of the North wants to remain British, then Britain unfortunately has the right to station troops there. To the British Government in Westminster, NI is just a part of Britain as Scotland, Wales and England are.

The BA wil only be illegal in NI if the majority of people in NI want to divorce themselves from Britain and Westminster prevents them from doing so.

We need to find measures in that the majority in NI want to unify. This is where the work of Republicans lays. Not in the bandit country.

Noel and Fianna

I am Irish and I am a Republican. You cannot say that I am not, only because I oppose your violent methods or your violent ideals in reaching our goals.

Even the "so called Irish people by Birth, born in the Republic" as yopu like to put it, are against your methods.

I am from the Republic. The last thing I want is to have is trouble makers in my own back yard.

You both need to change. I fully understand the anger and the hatred that you both pertray, but that is not going to change NI. You and alike just as the opposers will have to change thier ways and methods.

Noel:- Concerning your last post. No one has a problem that you disagree. It is the way you disagree. I think Fianna and Patrick are the biggest culprits here.

RAB has come in here to say his opinion. I disagree mostly with his opinions, however I am willing to listen and comment. Why use vile language and insults.

This is a forum. You are not on the street here where you can throw your stones and run the risk of being shot.


Charlotte.

That thin grey line I am talking about is about compromise between the two sides.

Imagine Noel and Fianna on one side and exactly the same type of guys on the other. Both are unwilling to find a compromise. Only the whole cake, nothing else.

That is the situation today in NI. You can see that from the last elections.
On one side the DUP and on the other Sinn Fein.

You see what I am getting at. No side wishes to move a little in the opposite direction to find a solution. The only mechanism in that can take NI forward is the GFA, supported by Dublin and London. But sadly opposed by the hardliners. (No need to discuss this further. The GFA I mean)

Concerning your comments. I think we are closer in our opinions than we thought. I agree with virtually everything you say. Even your comments on using force.

Patrick

I fully agree with Chucky's comments.

I get fed up hearing the same old comments from you. Nothing but insults and unconstructive and feeble measures. In other words "BULLSHIT" (Apologies for my use of language).

Is it because I disagree with you or is it because I am talking sense and you are unable to comprehend that?

PS. What do you mean with the PC threats? I do not think I ever threatened anyone here on this forum.

Lan did you get my pm ?

LAN,
I think compromise was a great thing to invent and avoided many wars and all.
But, how the hell would you find a compromise on such a matter ? Unless we part the Six Counties again with West being in the Republic and and East remaining British. Or maybe should we do so district by district so that the Irish living in the East should not be British and the Brits from the west should not be Irish. Let's not be ridiculous. There's no way to compromise with that. A free and United Ireland on one side and The Six Counties British on the other side : they are exactly opposite views, how will you find a compromise ? Be serious !

Slan agat

Nobody is being ridiculous !

We all want a United ireland on here. Lan was merely pointing out the constitutional and logistic problems that, sadly, are the realities of the situation.

If the British government just pulled out now and allowed us our 32 county republic then how do you envisage the streets of Ulster ? Just imagine all those orange men with their bowler hats and sashes waving the tricolour.

Let's get real ! You cannot look at this in such simplistic terms !!