Hi everyone,

My first post here, so do be gentle. Anyway, I consider myself a Republican - That is, I believe Ireland should be one nation. I've very interested in the songs of the movement, and that is what brought me to your fine site.However, as a British citizen, I've been in the Army for a little over 3 years. Reading over this board, I'm deeply disturbed by some of the sentiments: "We should be killing the BA instead of the PSNI" and labelling entire regiments as "Terrorists" and "Murderers".

It's extremely alarming: I joined up as a young man looking for direction in my life. I recieved a good wage, was fed well and had some of the best times of my life. I love the Army, and am proud to wear it's uniform. I'm proud to call myself a soldier. I'm also proud to call myself a Republican.

I suggest you look at yourselves and consider the men you are promoting the murder of. These are just boys like myself, doing a job. We've no interest in party politics, we're not bigots, and we're not terrorists. If you really care for a unified Ireland, and most importantly, for the human beings stuck in the middle of this god awful shitty mess, you'd be doing everything possible to prevent the murders, and trying to promote a political compromise. Killing Scottish soldiers who sympathise with your cause does nobody any favours.

Thoughts?

Weren't you a paratrooper?

Hi,

welcome to the Forum, Rab!

Some of the british Army Troops and most of the PSNI are cruel Bastards!
read this article

if you search a littlebit with google, you should find plenty more articles like that...

I dont want to say that the whole british army is an evil organisation...

but in fact, the PSNI acts against human rigths, and the british troops in northern Irland are supporting them...

and we have to do something against that :ph34r: (and I dont mean to go out on street and kill some poor scottish soldiers ;) )

I am not involved with the Parachute regiment.

The British Army only does what the elected politicians tell us to - It is not the soldiers that want to help the PSNI, but the government that want us to help them. It's not our fault.

and you can't say "no, that is not correct" or so? (like those starfleet troops from star trek)

If I may be cynical : this is a war and in a war it's pretty natural that some soldiers get killed...
By the way, the reponsible of it are for sure those who sends those soldiers over (mostly young lads of 18 if I believe what I've been told from a paratrooper I once got to talk with)
Yet I agree with Fionas, many of them acted and act as terrorists and murderers, and not only in 1972...

Failte Rab, welcome to the site. Formalities over...

First off, I do not believe you can be a Republican and at the same time make up the ranks of the very army Republicanism hopes to cleanse from this land forever. You are strenghtening their position, supporting and maintaining the occupation of our island and providing the fingers that may pull the trigger on our children in the future. Don't disgrace Republicanism by calling yourself a Republican. Believing that Ireland should be one nation does not make you a Republican. I hope one day that the Palestinian people will have their homeland returned to them, but that does not make me a Palestinian Nationalist. Even so, I know I would never join the Israeli Army, no matter how good the blood money.

I'm glad you're "deeply disturbed" and "extremely alarmed" by what you've read on this site. Look what foreign occupation leads to. Maybe it'll make you open your fuckin eyes a bit. Maybe you'll look at the situation through your eyes rather than through a rifle scope.

It doesn't matter what age, sex or nationality British soldiers are. A British soldier is a British soldier. Plain and simple. What difference if you're "just boys" or Scottish? Many of our volunteers were young too. Did that stop the Brit Army and their "chums" in the RUC from using a shoot-to-kill policy? The Paras weren't too discriminating when it came to age or sex on Bloody Sunday, were they now?

Once you are a member of the British Army, you are a target. Don't give me this bollox that it's just your job, what you have to do, that you have no choice. If you were genuinely concerned about the reunification of Ireland, you would never have joined the Brit Army in the first place.

Of course you're not interested in party politics. You're interested in death. Killing. Murder. It's your job, your profession, probably the only trade you know. One that you take great pride in. You murder for money. Wasn't too long ago that spilling the blood of Irishmen was what put bread on the table of a Brit squaddie. Who's to say them days won't return? We'll be ready if they do.

I'm glad you get paid a good wage Rab, I really do. I hope it can buy you peace of mind from the thoughts that, in all probability, the regiment you serve has shed the blood of innocent Irish men and women in your name. If that doesn't bother you then maybe the frontline is the best place for you.

Sl�n

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, fuck me, that had me in bits! Sorry, that was posted while I was posting a reply.

Well, it's not the IRAs fault that the British Army invaded, so it must be ok to kill Brit squaddies in defence, right? Right?!

Many people who claim to be "Republicans" are British taxpayers. They give the money that buys the bullets that go into my SA-80. It is also the British taxpayers who elect the politicians who choose to send the soldiers. If I am guilty of murder, then they are guilty of culpable homicide.

The British deployment in Northern Ireland (as far as I'm aware) doesn't contain any sections of the Parachute Regiment - I believe at present it's 3 Infantry brigades. And yes, you're right that it's all too frequently young lads who're deployed.

I don't attempt to excuse the mistakes of the past - I merely choose to suggest that in recent years attitudes within the Army have changed for the better. I am a young man, I joined when I was 16, and have been in service for 3 years. I wasn't even born when many of the defining moments of the insurgency took place. I cannot relate to the events - And I dare say that many people around can cannot either.

'To support the RUC in the defeat of terrorism and assist in the Government's objective of restoring normality to the Province.'

That's the army's mission statement. That is what we are attempting to do. If those goals are achieved, the Army leaves. Shooting more soldiers merely means that more soldiers are sent. I find it rather amusing the way you describe it as "our" island, and "our" children. I'm of Irish decent myself - My Great-Grandfather served with the ICA - I hang his Starry Plough above my bed. I've got more of a claim to "Ireland" than the bulk of the gun-running Sein Fein supporters do.

Furthermore, your claim that Republicanism is related to "cleansing" the Army is a distortion of the truth. That represents only your own view. If you take the majority view, Republicanism is progressive and democratic. It is, presently, the minority who resort to arms. Please, this is not the 1970s - Times have moved on. There is no need to go over the past. I pray you have some kind of hope for peace.

Clever reference to an event sure to bring emotions to the surface. Just a shame that it was 30 years ago. Times have changed. Certainly, that was an tragic and shameful event. But there is no moral authority when you look at the tragedy at Omagh.

You're quite correct - But I never feel ashamed of what I do. I was able to get out of a shithole because of the uniform. I was able to do things I could never have dreamed of. That is a soldier's job - It's his role in life. I don't see such scathing critism of our American counterparts for their role in Iraq around these forums.

When I signed up, my old man brought out a book. It had a phrase in it: "If any question why we died, tell them that our fathers lied". It's not anyone's role to send a man to his death. "The Frontline" as you define it, doesn't exist. You're obsessed with bring up events of past to instill a patriotic fever; actions of a skilled propagandist perhaps, but not the actions of one who wants security, peace and most importantly, democracy in Northern Ireland.

Hello there Rab, welcome to the board!

Well, I must agree with you on some of your points; not all BA soldiers are murderers, some of them have good intentions... I�m sure that�s true!

HOWEVER

I�m sure there were alot of "good lads" in Hitlers armies, Stalins armies and Francos armies... But that doesn�t make them less of enemies!
It is true this is terrible, but if you�re a soldier in the British army, you are the enemy, no matter what your intentions are.

That�s what war is Rab!
And if you consider yourself a Republican (you�re more of a Nationalist to be honest...), you should really get out of the BA.
Aslong as your in there, you can really not be called a Republican or Nationalist, for you are the enemy.

Yes, that's the problem. British taxpayers by choice? I think not. And by saying that it is the taxpayers who elect the politicians, who in turn order the soldiers in, it is the public who are ultimately to take resposibility for the actions of the Brit Army?! Most Brits have no clue as to what is happening or what has happened in Ireland. They are no judge as to what actions should be taken in Ireland. To be honest either are British politcians. Wanna know why? Cause they don't fuckin live here.

It's no wonder peace is unobtainable in the Six Counties when you read this type of bullshit. First, I obviously don't see the IRA as terrorists. My opinion. We've talked about this before, maybe while you were polishing boots, we don't need to go into it again. As for "restoring normality to the Province"; this is exactly why we need the Provos off their fuckin ceasefire and back in action. "Normality" equals the acceptance of British rule forever. It equals the abandonment of every inch of progress we've made. Our sacrafices will have been for nothing if the British become accepted in our land.

How can you have no shame in your line of work and at the same time be appalled by the prospect of the IRA killing British soldiers? You're quick to accuse me of being a propagandist, but its seems to me you couldn't recognise the propagandists within the British Army who instilled into your mind that you are a "normalisation force", fighting the good fight to secure the Six as part of the UK, as it always has been.

It's typical of those in the British establishment to just sweep history under the carpet. "Forget about it. That was 30 years ago, you're living in the past. Stop bringing up the past". Yeah, you'd love that. It'd suit your agenda perfectly to have the massacres and attrocities carried out by the British to be just forgotten in a the mist of false optimism and false hope that is the GFA. You talk about the past as if it is wrong to remember those who were murdered by the British Army. We will never forget the past. We honour those who have been taken from us, and the least we owe to them is to never forget.

Sl�n

.....as for you saying "times have changed"! All I can say is: THAT�S A FUCKING LIE! True, Bloody Sunday was 30 years ago... Look at what�s happening in Short Strand these days! www.32s.org
Look at that video Rab, and tell me about your great "PSNI/RUC/Murdering bastards", these people are the ones you help!
I�m sure your intentions are all good, but you should really open your eyes and look around you. It�s not in the past, it still IS!

Fully agreeing with that statement, as cynical as it may seem


Rab, your remark about the paratroopers is probably true. But first of all I'd like to tell you that I am a French speaker, meaning my knowledge of English is limited. I saw the word, picked it up and I am not sure it's the right one. Moreover, if that is, this man I was talking about was in Ireland a fair few years ago, maybe there were paratroopers at the time, I have no idea.

Indeed !


And fully agreeing with each point of Fianna's long message.

Slan agat

I agree with the others that postet before me, but...

Rab, imagine following:

you say you are a republican, rigth?
and you are in the british army...
now imagine the brits would start a new invasion, for whom would you fight? the british Army, or the Irish Republican Army?

Under the European Union's treaty of Rome, that is, Freedom of the movement of Labour, every single citizen of the United Kingdom can leave the country and reside in another other member state. That is, if British people cared so deeply, they too could move out and stop supporting the "Occupation". Bottom line? Most people aren't that worried about what goes on in Northern Ireland - And like me, have only sympathies to one side or the other.

They choose to support "The Occupation" in every way as much as I do. And by your logic, are liable to be shot and killed. Because "This is war" is it not?

Is this best thing for Northern Ireland, and I mean this in a serious way, another 25 years of bombings, shooting and civil strife, or is it a peaceful and democratic administration that gives some hope of peace for the future. Because that's what the majority of the Republican movement believes in. If you choose to stand outside that, and promote the return to arms, you're a coward. Unless you pick up arms with them, I have no respect. There's little there but a large mouth.

Because my work has included time in Bosnia and Kuwait / Iraq as well as Northern Ireland. That's why I have no shame. I have no shame because I'm not a murderer. I'm appauled because in the end, your views do not represent the majority of Northern Ireland, nor those of the Nationalist community as a whole. You represent nothing. You have no concern for the wellbeing of your neighbours. If anyone is the murderer between the two of, I dare suggest it is you.

It'd suit your agenda equally well to forgot the fact that the Provisional IRA, and their spliter groups, were and are masters of killing civilians. Claudy? Aldershot? Omagh? Enniskillen? There is no moral highground. Only a hope for peace - Because peace, regardless of who's flag it's under, is the best thing for Northern Ireland. It's not what I hope will happen to it, but it's the best thing for it's people.

But I am a subject of the United Kingdom - Whether I'm involved with the Army or not I'm still contributing. It is the politicians who send the Army. How many times must I reiterate this point? The Army does what it's told. The blame lies at Westminster rather than at a barracks.

For a start, the democratically elected government of the United Kingdom would never sanction such a move. It just wouldn't happen. If it did happen, it would mean that parliament had ceased to be a liberal democracy, and that means I would have no loyalty to it. In that matter I would not fight at all - I'd perhaps raise this flag:

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