I'm from Scotland, just North of Glasgow and I can't describe how sick I feel seeing Scottish people turn more and more "Brittish". It might just be me but over the last few years the situation has seemed to snowball. Have any of you got any veiws on this? It would be good to hear an outside point of veiw.

bhoy amos, don't you know Frank McGuire? He is a great friend of mine, he is a bodhran player champion and he lives somewhere by Loch Lomond?

Afraid not, not even heard of him. Should I know him?

Hmmmm Near Dumgoyne? (I just love Glengoyne)

Frank played wihh Beggars Row, Lyra Celtica bands. And he starts to teach percussions in a University...

That narrows it down.

Here is Lyre Celtica pic. Frank is second left
http://www.boarhouse.ru/boarhouse/photo/232.jpg

You say little England but then refer to Britain. Britain is not little England. England is part of Britain.

Secondly what is being English. Ask an Indian, Pakistani, China-man or any of the people who live in England or any part of Britain today.

Are you English, Scottish....... They would mostly say British Asian etc.

Britain is multicultural. Go to any of the large cities. I.e. London, Edinburgh or Manchester.

Take for example Manchester or Liverpool. They are regarded as being Anglo-Irish cities. Both have a large Irish community and Irish traditions. But you would never hear from a Scouse, the city is too Irish or is leading that way.

Particularly London! I do not think that there is another city in the world that is so multicultural. I live in London where cultural diversity is so broad that saying London is English is no longer true. I am Irish. There is a huge Irish community in London, as there is Scottish, Australian Italian even French and German and many more. You would never hear an English man saying that London is to Multi-Cultural, quite the opposite actually.

Your case is true, if you live or go out into the small market towns. This is also the case for England, Scotland........ There the diversity of cultures are much narrower, the local issues are more apparent to town, county or region. Thus you can breakdown culture even further to regions and cities. Edinburgh is not the same as Stirling as London is to Chesterfield etc. Cornwall is not Yorkshire etc.

Nice believing in your own culture. Nothing wrong with that, but you can not say that your culture is part of or is being replaced by little England. It is much wider than that. Culture is part of evolution (History and Future). If our cultures stood still we would still be living caves or speaking a Romano/Breton form of dialect.

Cultures will continue to evolve as the world gets smaller. Most of Europe already has similarities due, to open borders, freedom of employment and commerce.

Some cultures will die and some will survive. It is how one goes about trying to protect them. The Celts, Romans, Saxons, Angles and Norman�s are all cultures of the past, however they have left their marks on the British Mainland, to become what is known today as part of a British Culture.

In your case you are Scottish, British and European. You may say you are not British. In that case if you have a passport, take a look it. It will say "British Passport". You are part and partial of a British Culture. I am even accepting that being Irish, my culture has been heavily influenced by British Culture. Being British or British Culture does not always mean that it is something bad.

Ask an English man if he feels sick about the Scottish families living in his home town or road etc. He would probably look at you in a rather confused manner.

Well LAN, you are actually a good example of my first post, this brittish acceptance. But as you say there is nothing wrong with a multi cultural country to an extent, if anything it is a good thing. Some of Scotlands top doctors are Pakistani's, some of the top engineering firms are Japanese, you can go out to a real Indian or Chinese restraunt. I am not a racist. I am not Brittish.
Can I ask you what is wrong with me,a lot of Scottish and Irish people in beleiving in having a country of our own?, why cant we have Scottish or likewise Irish passports? and why do we have to be ruled by an English goverment in the Themes who doesn't know or care of our cultures.

First of all I declare that I am not antiglobalist... But look around and you will see that this kind of shit happens all over the Europe. Gettin closer to some a standard, possibly of american type.

LAN', I don't think you recognise the difference between the dilution of a culture through natural means, and the dilution of a culture through brute force, agression and occupation.

England is more than just part of Britain, and well you know that LAN'. It's like saying Russia was just another part of the USSR. That's bollox. Bit like your opening statemeant. In case it hasn't dawned on you yet, all the states in Britain, other than England, were forced to join the "United" Kingdom at the point of a gun. By who LAN'? England.

And as for "If you have a passport, take a look it. It will say 'British Passport'. You are part and partial of a British Culture". Well LAN', good to see your wee trip hasn't changed you, cause that's one of the most stupid comments I've heard since the last time you posted here. Bhoy Amos didn't choose to have a British Passport. If he had it his way (and the way of many other Scottish people), he'd have a Scottish passport. I hope you don't find that hard to comprehend LAN'. It seems pretty clear to me.

Why should he have to accept that he is "British" just because his passport was issued by the English Home Office? He doesn't want to be labeled as "British". Why should he after all? He wants to live in a Scotland that recognises his culture, recognises him as "Scottish", not "British". A person shouldn't be denied that right. Britain went to war in 1914 in the interest (allegedly) of "self-determination" for people of minority cultures. Yet right on their doorstep they were denying this right to the Scottish, Welsh and Irish.

Bhoy Amos, you've every right to want a Scotland that is free from British influence. Not even that, you should expect it. Scotland has one of the richest cultures in the world, and it would be a shame to lose it under a tide of "Britishness" as you say.

Sl�n tamaill a chairde

By the way, does anybody else think it's strange that the day LAN' makes his triumphant return to these forums, is the same day when the record was set for the most users ever online in a single day?!

[Most users ever online was 32 on Dec 9 2003, 08:05 PM]

Can anybody say "Multiple Account Holder"?!

Beautifully illistrated

Sometimes it amazes me that people post on subjects they simply don't understand !

Being British means you are English, Welsh OR Scottish. Britain is the island of which Scotland is a constituent part whether you like it or not.

Wanting Scottish independence is another matter, and as both a Scot and a Brit you have every right to campaign for it.

However, it should be noted at this point that Irish republicans campaign for BRITS out, not English out. How many Brit soldiers had scottish or welsh accents ?
Loads !

Unionists stupidly cling to "britishness" and the UUP's slogan was "Simply British". Well my passport tells me I'm a "Citizen of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" so Mr. Trimble, constitutionally you ain't British.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Irish republican, I was born in London and I live in England. I'm simply pointing out matters of fact.

If you are a scottish nationalist then good luck to you, I can understand your viewpoint but please get your facts straight. Poor old Lan always gets slated when he makes a valid point. Perhaps if everone listened more instead of espousing the world would be a better place.

Personally I don't care whether Scotland is part of Britain. A 32 county Irish Republic is what I want !

Firstly, there's one point that really needs clearing up here. Everybody who actually lives here in Ireland knows that the term "Britain/British" and "England/English" are interchangeable. They are one and the same. One would not exist without the other. If Britain is an overgrown weed, then England is the seed that it was grown from.

And can we get away from deciding your nationality on what your passport says? My Dad is Scottish, with an Irish passport that says his Nationality is British. Yet he hates the English more than I do. So lets not keep using that as a measure of your nationality.

Fianna,

You are correct, this is a forum.

However you seem to like shouting people down in true Paisleyite fashion. For someone who seems to be fairly intelligent you don't listen much.

Your truth isn't necessarily THE truth.

Please be reasoned and reasonable and consider that someone elses opinion might be worth listening to (even if you don't agree)

Daithi

Fianna's may not be 'THE TRUTH', but It DEFINATELY seems to be the consensus of the Majority of the people in THIS forum.

That wasn't my point !

If there's a consensus does that mean that the minority doesn't have a right to speak ?

That's a fucked up version of democracy in my book.

Let's discuss and debate please, thats what a forum is for. Not to poo-poo other peoples opinions, and Patrick, not for sycophantic hear-hears either.

Is the following contribution from Patrick typical of the total lack of understanding of the 6 counties problems here on the board and therefore disqualify him from deciding what the consensus is , I quote ...

"Can I ask a stupid question here?
The election that is coming up, Who all can vote? Everyone in the Republic, or just the people in the 6 counties? Ooops, Thats 2 questions. "

ps. Does anyone know someone called Mick, he lives in Ireland ?

I rest my case.

What is it with you and stirring shit Daithi? Of all the shit stirrers who have ever stirred shit, you are the schiz shit stirrer...

You know Daithi, I could easily trawl through past posts and find some quote that makes you look like a dick (wouldn't be difficult), but I'm not that fickle and desperate. I don't need to look through past posts to quote you on something stupid you've said, usually your latest post is enough.

Where the fuck in Patricks post did he refer to democracy, or that the minority don't have a right to speak? You're the one shouting people down. At least when I shout you down it's for something you've said, not for words I put in your mouth, as you've just done with Patrick.

Hell, you've just interpreted Patricks version of democracy from him typing one sentence!

I think an apologies in order for Patrick, what say you Patrick?

And don't tell me I don't listen. I happen to be a very good listener. I always read your posts through Daithi, I'm aware of the points you make. The fact that I find most of what you say to be bollox of the highest quality doesn't mean I don't listen.

Sl�n tamaill

P.S. Yeah, I do know a Mick who lives in Ireland...what's your point?

Thanks Fianna, An apology would be nice but consider the source. Chucky has shown his true colours in the past just like Lan. I dont reply to Lan and I wont waste my time replying to Chucky. Life is too short to argue with idiots. I would have better luck pissing up a rope. SAOIRSE!

Wow it seems I missed something. Pity I was not online.

Bhoy Amos.

I think you got me totally wrong here. I did not reply to your post concerning the independence of Scotland. The independence of Scotland was not even mentioned in your very first post.

I am glad that there is at least someone here, who takes the time to read and understand. Thanks for that Chucky.

My reply was in response to Little England and the connection you made to being British.

If you were merely trying to set-up another boring Anti English Campaign, then have FUN. I am not interested in joining your league of Anti-English witch-hunters. Ask Fianna or Patrick. I am sure they would be very happy to come along and play.

OK! Scottish Independence

If Scotland and the majority of her people want independence, then let her have it.
I do not think anyone here on this forum would ever have a problem with that or disagree with you.

Scotland�s independence is for you and your people to decide. You are more lucky than you think. You have at least the SNP to do that. At least thay cover the whole of Scotland. All you need is a clear majority across the board. That the SNP cane merel sum up 20% (HIGH-END) is not my problem but yours.

In Irelands case we do not have that luxury. The six are treated quite separately from the 26. Do I need to explain further.

Personally speaking. I do not really care about Scotland�s position in the UK. Scotland�s problems are not my problems. I am more interested in the problems concerning the constructive unification of Ireland.

Fianna:

I would recommend in future that you keep calm, read more carefully other people�s posts, more importantly try to understand and try to build a constructive opinion. STOP jumping to premature and narrow-minded pre-conclusions.

POSTS

I just need to trawl through your posts. No where else is that is to find hypocritical statements. All in the name and personal fame and self pittying determiantion of FIANNA.

I find it very sad that you do not even seem to realise that your posts are embarrassing the name and in the cause of the the Republican movement.

Hypocrisy Galore!!!!!!! Look at your Statements concerning rights and the use of the Forum .

I agree with you that any one person has his/her rights.

However, that does not automatically mean that this single person has the right to enforce his opinion on others, which by the way (ALSO IN ACCORDANCE TO YOU) have the right to disagree.

Nor does this mean that a minority has the right to enforce on the majority (WHICH DOES NOT COMPLY WITH YOU).

Where do you stand? It seems in NO MANS LAND.

Or

# The point of this board is that people can express their views on any subject they choose, whether they "understand" the situation or not. If we were to only allow people post if they "understood" what was going on, yourself and LAN' wouldn't even get past the sign-up for this site. I hear the new version of this site has an "Automatic Bullshit Detector TM"..#

It is a shame that this bullshit detector has not been enabled.

I go one step further. I would duly recommend that the auto bullshit detector be re-released with a delete function. This would be very welcome, as in future anyone stupid enough or accidentally performing a search with a key called �Fianna� would be disappointed or relieved in receiving a server return of � No Files Found �


Patrick

I cannot be really asked either, but for this one occassion I nearly agree with you on one point.

# Life is too short to argue with idiots. I would have better luck pissing up a rope. #

Allow me to complete.

# Life is too short to argue with idiots. I would have better luck pissing up a rope but, be assured that your own piss does not wet your own head. #

Gag you? I don't need to gag you...if LAN' in the room he'll bore you into a coma...

You say "What is wrong with us Scots and irish having our own passports?" But the English don't have their own passports! There is NO English passport! We are the same as you!

If it was the English Home Office then that would mean that the Scots and Welsh would be issued with English passports. It must be the BRITISH Home Office, because even the English aren't issued with English passports.

Do you look as stupid as you've made yourself out to be?

"Scotland joined the Union voluntarily"?
"Everything else you said, which was equally or even more stupid"?

Fianna = Republican
Patrick = Republican
Bhoy Amos = Republican
Chrissy Bhoy = Republican
Lan = Republican
Me = Republican
Sean = Republican (Apologies if I missed anyone)

Why do we have to argue all the time when we want the same thing.
I for one don't claim to know it all and like to use a forum to exchange views and maybe learn something. I didnt come here to insult and be insulted.
We know who the enemy is, certainly not each other ! It's the system that divides the 26 + the 6 counties, it's the loyalist paramilitaries, the invading military force and bigoted paisleyites.
If you lads who have been here longest think I am wrong and you would prefer I didn't contribute just let me know.

Daithi

The Enemy is the power that hates the true Christianity and wishes to distort or even to eliminate it. You see what I mean?
P.S. Count me as Republican too

Lancashire,
you're in the wrong place. This is a Republican website (and you forgot me Chucky Armagh !). If you're here to say stupid things just find another website, one of those loyalists one where everyone only says stupid things. You should fit in much better than here.

So Good bye

Sean:

Christophe, I know exactly how you feel. I was raised a Catholic, but am now an atheist, and I can't stand the way people believe they are right because they have some God on their side. Religion, and the willingness of some to exploit religion, has been the biggest cause of war, hatred and suffering in this world. But I don't think we should argue about religion here, it has no place in Irish politics, and after all, Irish politics is what this board is mainly about.

Lancashire...where to start with you...

Just a few words to Christophe and Fianna.
As I already told Christophe online, I think he's wrong to get so mad at Sean for such a little phrase. By the way, I must add that I'm a Catholic. Your attitude doesn't shock me, but it gets me sad. Mostly because it is the attitude of many people to judge every Catholic on account of a few things the Pope said or the crimes of some priests or the supposed intolerance of Catholicism. I was an atheist when younger, was raised by a mother who doesn't care at all about religion and a father who is both an atheist and anti-Catholic. Moreover, in my school, most pupils were Atheists or Muslims and I must say I've seen more intolerance from them (especially Atheists) than I have ever seen from Catholics (just that I don't know so many of them).
Moreover, Christophe, and this is my opinion (Sean will correct me if I'm wrong) but I think that by "true Christianity", Sean didn't mean that it was the right religion and that everyone else is wrong, but simply that there is a "true Christianity" and some people who just use Christianity. Just as there would be a "true Islam" and a "true Judaism" and some extremists who use those religions for personal interest.

That's all. Just hope you don't get me wrong.
And let's get back to dear old Ireland.

Slan go foill

OK, OK, let me now...
First of all, Charlotte go raibh mille maith agat!
I've ment "true Christianity" as a true faith, that did not became formality. I belong to the Eastern Orthodoxal Church but have a great respect to a Roman Catholic Church. And I do not mix up the Cult itself and the bearers of the Cult. And I am 100% sure that there is the damned power that is going to prevert and to destroy the Christianity in the whole World. One of the steps to it was an attempt to convert the Catholic Ireland into a protestant way and supporting the locals who were converted. In Russia it was a Communists' atheistic attack. And it was the same evil power.
Christophe, Holy Inquisition was not a bad idea. Read more about it. When you say that condoms is a necessary attribute at AIDS times, I proclaim - watch yourself, do not fuck anything that moves and you will be OK. And bad news for you too - condoms do not preserve of AIDS.
Let's go further.
USSR was a union of the communists regimes, self created and supported. And Russia was not a motive power, it was still a historical center of Russian Empire.
(By a way - I'm fuckin' sick of comparison of Russia-Chechia and britain-Eire. Russia had NEVER converted muslims into Christianity and NEVER was forbiddening to speak the native languages! I can say more but it's absolutely another topic.)
And to say that Alba or Eire became british on their own will - it's a high quallity bullshit. Read some britsh history. The english kings always were finding a local traitor, offered him a land, an english nobility... So they were creating a marionette leader. And afterwards this traitor's will was declared as a "nation's will". Tricky busturds!
Dixi

Noel

What do you mean by somethings in the forum should go unsaid?

Do you also think that this Lancashire guy is me. If you do You are wrong.

Must get back to business.

LAN

This is my first post on this forum. I have read various discussions for some time and have developed an understanding as to how differing members think about different subjects. I would like to express my views on this discussion.
I considered myself a republican for a long time and studied the situation for a longer time. I have done things and have said things that have caused a lot of trouble but not to the extent that it made a huge difference. Every day, it eats me up inside that we live in an apparent "republic", yet our island is not. Yet again, our occupiers fight to free an occupied nation. A sense of hypocrisy comes to mind. I work 5 days a week and spend the rest of my spare time on me, I do not agree with calling myself a republican any more, more of a nationalist I fear, although I hope to one day call myself that again. Still, I do have opinions and firstly they would be to you Fianna. It is so refreshing to hear thoughts froma person who obviously knows what the hell their talking about rather than the usual pub talking "republicans" who know everything and nothing about everything. On the subject of Britain and England being the same, I completely agree. Regardless of what a passport says or what a map says, any Scottich or Welsh person I know refuse to accept the term British for their country. England set up Britain and therefore engineered it the way they sought fit to do so. They control it, if something goes against their wishes, they interfere (i.e. Northern Ireland elections). To use the USSR as an example is one of the weirdest examples I have ever heard of.

What choice have republicans got? For years (5, almost 6 now), the promise of discussion and negotiation has been made and still we are no further. There is no room for negotiation. What does negotiation mean? Each side giving a little! England aren't going to give anything and the republican movement (never mind the English orientated Irish government) aren't going to give anything. It stands that a crime is a crime, regardless of how long has past. England have no right to any occupation of this island, Ireland have every right to be a free, united republic - all of Ireland.

"my answer is clear as to what's the solution, if they dearly love England then it's there they should be, let Ireland be Ireland, one country, one nation, with her sons and her daughters united and free."

REBELHEART, Tis good to hear fresh HONEST voices again. God Bless you. It seems that England has 'selective memory' when it comes to history. They just cant seem to come to grips with the fact that they INVADED Ireland 800+ years ago. They can colour it any shade of Orange they want, they are STILL UNINVITED and UNWELCOME INVADERS!

Noel. can you help me to get a british passport or even two? I'll be a best man to add a bad name against the british, trust me!

Sean:

Christophe. this moment I'm searchin for statistics about Inquisition's victims I had seen before. It was something less then Texas' death penalties during last ten years.
"Burn the withch or witch will burn you". And I know about Holy Inquisition much-much-much more then you do - "Malleus maleficarum" is allways on my tabletop. These guys were just a mankind's surgeons, and there's a great need of them nowdays I'm sure.
And the fact that you was raised as a catholic and disappointed later is the best illustration to the evil powers are quite successful.

Condoms do not presrve AIDS because latex's structure is too porous and AIDS' cells are 10 times smaller then the pore. Are you sure you know your partner(s) well?

Do not count Vatican's treasury. And - I repeat - do not mix up the bearers of the Cult and the Cult itself.

And the last one: we are here on another reason. If you want to continue this topic (keepin' respect to your opponent) you are welcome by e-mail.

God, god, god...
Let's not argue about religion, unlike politics, it's all a matter of personal faith.
Sean,
I find it hard to support the Holy Inquisition in any way : cannot forget they burnt our Joan of Arc (even with a bit of help of the Brits). Can't forget either the numerous auto-da-f� and all the poor women who were burnt just because their hair were ginger or because they had black cat. Yet, 'd also like to remind everyone that this is the past. And I don't see how Catholics nowadays can be found guilty for it. Just as I would tell a young German that he's responsible for Hitler's crimes.

About AIDS, condoms and all.
Surely condoms protect from AIDS. So far, it's the only known protection against it, and even though it's "only" 99% sure, it's the best one ever. Anyway, there's still a better one : not to have sex at all ! And if the Pope doesn't allow people to use condoms, it's because he doesn't allow them either to have sex without being married (marriage doesn't protect from AIDS, but you can still ask for a test before).

Moreover, though I'm a Catholic, I have my own God-given conscience. Too many Atheist forget it and think we are brainwashed and that we don't do anything without the Pope's agreement or against the Pope's agreement. I act according to my own conscience, sometimes with, sometimes against the Pope's words. If I have ever done anything wrong, or that cannot be forgiven in any way, I'll let God be the only Judge.


Back to Politics now? It's so much more interesting !

I keep my oppinion with me, and totaly agree to Charlotte -
Back to Politics now? It's so much more interesting !

I'd just like to side step the arguement about religion (that's original!) and agree with Rebelheart and welcome him to the board. Bit late but I was away. Keep posting your thoughts here a chara, like Patrick said it's good to hear a fresh Republican voice.

Sl�n go foill

Fianna, do you mean that our voices are old and rotten, don't you?