This wednesday marks the 24th anniversary of the Narrow Water attack at Warrenpoint, County Down.

"13 dead but not forgotten, we got 18 and Mountbatten."

They should continue to attack British Army facilities and so on: just as in America, the British people doesn't like seeing their soldiers/sons return in coffins. And what's the result of that? Occupying forces are forced to yield more to their opponent. Keep troubling Mr. AverageBrit with N.-Ireland and the British government will start to give in, just to please Mr. AverageBrit.

Look at the appauling situation now:
- IRA calls a cease-fire to please Blair so they can start to negotiate...
- Blair refuses and wants IRA to decommission: only then negociations will start;
- IRA starts to decommission, still Blair isn't happy!
- So Blair says: dismantle IRA.
- Blablablabla....
So I say (and so should the whole IRA): Fuck your decommissioning, fuck your dismanteling AND fuck your shitin' negotiations.
Everybody knows Blair's a lying cunning little bastard! (Even his own people now!)

So start decommissioning and dismantling the British Army: by blowing the whole bunch up!

Let the IRA be what it is: an Irish people's Army, not a blasted workgroup chatting happily with the Brits. You can't talk with 'em: ye can only listen to their lies, bribing and "how bad the other RA's are" Divide et conquere! Respond by letting them see your footsole close! Or in case ye can't stretch 'em that far: between the legs will do fine too I think

P.S. Best method to beat your enemy is by using his own method against him!

Hope I didn't break the rules Bjorn?!
Did some good though... If you don't like it to be in Speaker's corner, move it...

Christophe ye rebel! This should be for politics, and well you know it!

So I amn't gonna add anything.

But just to say that the "Best method to beat your enemy is by using his own method against him" is a load of bollox in our case, and always has been. Last time we tried that was 1916, and what a massacre that was. An honourable, worthwhile and admirable massacre, but a bloody massacre of �ire's finest nonetheless.

Sl�n

It's OK

The armed resistance has always been a hotly debated issue in the Republican circles, even before the Sticky-Provo split. Back then the majority thought armed struggle was the only way to drive the Brits off, and they were right. Thus was born the concept of "the Long War". Now however, we've seen that armed struggle only invariably alienates the Irish people from the Cause and ends up killing civilians (like in Omagh). As much as I hate to admit it, the time for armed struggle is over and it's time to sit down and negotiate. Having said that, all this talk about decommissioning or disbanding the RA is just crazy talk. An Undefeated Army does not surrender its weapons to the invader, never has and never will. Not another bullet, not another ounce. The peace talks can only proceed on the grounds that there is a secret army, a Green army in Ireland, ready to carry on fighting if need be, but ready to negotiate.

The future of Ireland lies with SF, not R/CIRA. Stand down, dump arms. For now.

gnagnagnagnagnagna
cr�tin va !

Slan go foill

My apologies if it sounds like Charlotte is Bashing Noel. I deleted a post from someone who was not following the rules of this forum above Charlottes last post. In reality Charlotte and Noel are good friends.

Quote Noel: I agree with you on the unite bit,but it is just not possible at the moment, to many foul words have been said by each paramilitary for that to happen overnight..However we could beat them we could take them on, with force i believe it could be done....


That's just what I mean! They should forget about their personal quarrels for a moment and concentrate on the ONE thing they all agree on: plain and simply BRITS OUT...
They can have a good fight afterwards, if that releaves them...
Settle first the score of the Brits, the own little (or huge...) problems can wait a bit...
The Irish Republican movement would be way more effective then!

SAO�RSE!!!

I THOUGHT THAT THIS MAKES AN INTERESTING READ. SO DOES THE SITE.

JUST TO SEE THE OTHERSIDES POINT OF VIEW.

LAN

Gerry Adams would you trust him?????

Gerry Adams' aim and the aim of the SinnFein/IRA is to force the Ulster Protestant majority of the North under the domination of the South of Ireland. It is of no great moment to him whether this is achieved by means of murder, maiming, indiscriminate terrorism propaganda or by sitting around a table with the likes of Tony Blair.

The world and the USA must take into account this mans past and his political objectives when they listen to his answers in the USA. He is a compulsive liar and that has been proved many a time, he will not answer any question which will in his eyes harm the SinnFein/IRA movement.

So who is Gerry Adams??????

When the IRA/Provisional IRA split occurred in 1970 Adams went with the more violent and extreme Provos'.

In May 1971 he became commander of the 2nd Battalion, Belfast Brigade.
In the following 12 months the battalion murdered 49 people.

In July 1972 he was involved in the planning of "Bloody Friday" when 21 bombs exploded in Belfast City Centre, killing 9 people. The injured were -77 women and girls and 53 men and boys.

Shortly afterwards he wrote out what has clearly been his strategy ever since:

"Rightly or wrongly I am an IRA volunteer. The course I take involves the use of physical force. It means fighting. Maybe I won't fight again. But it still needs to be said because I will move aside for the fighters".

And that is precisely what has happened. Gerry Adams' aim and the aim of the IRA is the enforced union of the North under the domination of the South of Ireland.

It is of no great moment to him whether this is achieved by means of murder, maiming, indiscriminate terrorism or by sitting around a table with the likes of Tony Blair.

For Gerry Adams such talks are only of use if they move towards this union of Ireland and thus ignore the wishes of the majority of people in Ulster.

If this is the case, then what purpose do such talks serve for our political leaders. The only answer is that they pave the way for a sell out of that part of the United Kingdom and the betrayal of the Ulster peoples of Northern Ireland.

The setting up of these talks and the efforts to include Gerry Adams in the discussions is treachery on a grand scale even by the standards of previous British governments.

Of all the hideous and blood thirsty atrocities carried out by the bloodthirsty fiends of Sinn Fein IRA in the name of so called Irish Freedom, the murder of Mrs Jean McConville must rate as one of the most bloodcurdling tales to emerge from over 30 years of terror.

Danny Morrison, once famously asked "who can object if we [Sinn Fein IRA] take control in Ireland with an armalite rifle in one hand, and a ballot box in the other?".

This led to the twin-track strategy of relentless terrorism, and contesting elections (albeit with the assistance of widespread intimidation and vote impersonation).

The tragic tale of Jean McConville, executed on the command of Gerry Adams, the psychotic Sinn Fein IRA godfather............................

The execution of Jean McConville Beaten up and killed for one simple act of charity. You might imagine that she had suffered enough. She was 37 and her husband Arthur had died from cancer just 10 months earlier. Her eldest daughter was in Muckamore Abbey (a home for the mentally retarded), and her eldest son Robert, 17, was interned on the prison ship Maidstone, suspected of involvement with Sinn Fein IRA.

Jean McConville was 20 when she first met Arthur in Belfast. It was not a time of plenty, but it was a time of peace. He was Catholic, a British Army squaddie. She was a Protestant girl from working-class East Belfast. She changed her religion and began producing children. In early 1973, when the world first heard about Jean McConville, her daughter Anne was 19; Robert, the internee, was 17; Arthur was 16; Helen was 15; Agnes 13; Micky 11; Thomas 8; Suzanne 7; Billy and Jim, the twins, were six years old.


But some people are never satisfied. Certainly not the bitter men of `B' Company. Shortly after Helen left eight men and four women descended on the house. ``They dragged her from the bathroom. They said they were only taking her for a few hours. My elder brother Arthur followed them down to a waiting car. One of the men pulled a gun and put it to his head and told him to f**k off,'' says Helen.

They had been wearing masks, but they took them off outside. Arthur knew who some of them were, but he has never said who and he never will, or the same might happen to him.''

For years after that, Helen would pass one of the women almost every day, but their gazes never met. The kids waited for their mother to come home and Helen took charge of the household. They were afraid to report her missing to the RUC, so Christmas 1972 came and went.

Their granny, Mary McConville, 68, came over from her house in Collingswood Walk to help out. They scraped together a few presents but it was a cold and lonely Christmas without a mother, abandoned by the community.

What happened to Jean McConville? She was taken to a house in the Beechmount area of Belfast for what Sinn Fein IRA call "interrogation". The brave "freedom fighters" put a plastic bag over the head of the Roman Catholic mother of 14 and began to question her.

She suffered terribly until the last breath was squeezed out of her sad life. Some time after Christmas, a man called to the McConvilles' house. He had their mother's purse, with just her three rings inside it.

He told them that he knew nothing about her, that he had just been asked to return it. That was all they had left of their mother. On January 17, 1973, with the family at the end of their tether, the young McConvilles went to the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association for help.

The next day the story was in the newspapers under the heading: `Return mother, family of 10 plead'. It makes heart-rending reading today. The IRA had murdered Jean McConville and now, in prolonging the McConvilles' agony by withholding her body, they were showing that they could control the lives and destiny of anyone who crossed them.

Terrorism in its purest form. ``We daren't tell the police, because you don't do things like that around here. If we knew where to look for her, we would. No-one tells us anything,'' the then 15-year-old Helen told reporters.

But the killers had further evil intent in store for the McConvilles. The following day ``reliable sources'' in Belfast told the papers that Jean McConville was ``alive and well and living in Britain''. That report (January 19, 1973) said she had been released by her IRA kidnappers, flown to Britain and was living at a ``secret'' hideout in Belfast.

Jean McConville couldn't suffer any more, so for 27 years her children were made to suffer instead. You might think they had suffered enough by being taken into care and separated, even though they were assured they would be kept together. But watching the excavation of a car park in Carlingford as the gardai (Irish Republican police force) search for the bones of their beloved mother, their suffering continues. When will it end?

Jean McConville, the Roman Catholic mother of 10 - abducted from her Belfast home by a 12-strong gang of Sinn Fein IRA thugs � AND MURDERED


For more real information on Ulster visit www.ulsterloyalist.co.uk

Thats quite a sad story to be honest.

But notice how its not from a neutral standpoint, it was written by a Loyalist reporter. He may have twisted the facts, he may have not. But I'm sure I could find plenty of just as, if not more so, damning stories about the UVF, UDA, RHC, RUC, etc.

ChrisyBhoy is right, It IS a very Sad story, but ALSO, VERY ONE SIDED INDEED. What if the Brits tried to blackmail her into being a spy for them? What if she refused and they started telling everyone that she WAS a brit spy? What if they made her sound like a very bad person to the point of being killed? Sounds like a divide and conquer bit to me. I feel deeply for the children of Jean McConville. I also cant help but think the Brits were behind this somehow.

Once again though, It sounds like our buddy Lance is stirrin it up again.

It is TRULY sad indeed for her children. But, Once again, The British were behind her death. They used that same "Divide and Conquer" method. She was probably blackmailed by the Brits. They Probably used her son that was Interned at the time as "Ransom" for her cooperation. I am sure she was very vocal in her persistance to the RA(trying to let them know without saying directly that she was in trouble) and as any good mother would do, Sacrifice her life for the freedom of her children. Maybe I am a little "One sided", but this whole thing WREAKS of British BULLOCKS.
To the Family of Jean McConville, May your Mother rest in peace, May God look down on all of you and Bless all of you. She was a Brave woman and gave her life for the freedom of Ireland, Not for being blackmailed by the Brits.

So she was a Brit spy after all? If so, Do you think maybe she was blackmailed into doing so?

There will always be two sides to this story. I suppose one will never know the real truth.

Yes I have been away. And NO I am not trying to start anything as Patrick has stated. I see that there is not so much interest on this site as there was in the past. Looking at the number of replies.

I have to admit that I have not taken a look for some time. I have been very busy. I do not intend to visit the site and get into complicated discussions as I did beforehand, however I will ever so often take a look and see what is proceeding.

Anyway I was going through some papers and I found this article. I think it makes good reading and I personally believe it points out to one of the main reasons for the continuing violence in N. Ireland.

LAN


In Northern Ireland, hate begins early
Three-year-olds already show signs of prejudice, a survey finds
By Anne Cadwallader | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
BELFAST � On a sidewalk in Belfast, a Protestant child shows off for a group of bored journalists waiting for the Northern Ireland Secretary of State, John Reid, to emerge from a meeting.
"If I had a gun, I'd shoot Gerry Adams," the 6-year-old boasts. Adams is the leader of Sinn Fein, regarded as the political wing of the Irish Republican Army, which has sworn to forge a single, united and independent Ireland.

"Why shoot Gerry Adams?" someone asks. "Because he's a Catholic and all my family hates Catholics" says the child, twirling a baton colored red, white and blue � the colors of the British flag.
A few feet away his mother, taking in some rare Belfast sunshine, smiles approvingly.
The episode offers a glimpse of the problems Northern Ireland faces in its upcoming generation. Recent research shows that the province's two communities, far from being reconciled to each other as part of the ongoing peace process here, are gradually drawing further apart.

A survey in June, carried out for the University of Ulster, showed that prejudice between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland begins early, even before children start school.

Most Catholics regard themselves as Irish, or republican, wanting closer links with Dublin, while Protestant loyalists are determined to retain the constitutional link with London.

The survey found that Catholic and Protestant children at age 3 already dislike the cultural icons of the other tradition. Ninety percent of 6-year-olds in both communities showed an understanding of the political significance of flags, while one in five understood the meaning of rival sectarian football teams.

Among the respondents was a Catholic 4-year-old who didn't like Protestants because they were "bad people" and said all Protestants wanted to kill Catholics. A Protestant 6-year-old told the survey's authors that Catholics were "bad" and "smashed windows."

International observers, especially from the US, often suggest that the answer to such division might be integrated education, with Catholic and Protestant children taught together (although in Northern Ireland itself, only the small, centrist Alliance Party promotes this as a solution).

At present, more than 95 percent of Northern Ireland's school-children attend segregated schools. Historically, Catholic schools � based on neighborhood/parish boundaries � taught Catholic students, and Protestant children attended public schools.

Frances Donnelly of the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education, says, however, that desegregation is not a panacea. "It's an important part of the solution, but our children go back to segregated housing and their parents work in segregated work-places.... Once they go through the school gates, many other powerful influences get to work."

Those influences are reflected in almost a year of incessant conflict between Protestant and Catholic communities. But though the death toll is down � seven so far this year, compared with roughly one a week before the 1994 cease-fires � real reconciliation between the two communities has yet to take root.
According to Dr. Peter Shirlow, senior lecturer in human geography at the University of Ulster, 64 percent of Belfast residents think that "intercommunity relations have deteriorated since the IRA and loyalist cease-fires."

Dr. Shirlow's latest research, published this summer, follows a study in 1999 of parts of working-class north Belfast, where he found that the number of residents who worked in integrated workplaces had fallen from 75 percent to 33 percent over the previous 10 years.

Around 80 percent of residents, he discovered, would not even do their shopping in areas they regarded as the "other side's" territory.

For the past 12 years, the British government has funded the Community Relations Council (CRC), which seeks to foster respect between the Protestant and Catholic traditions through financial support for cross-community projects.

Some critics say, however, that different tactics are needed. Brian Feeney, a lecturer in education at St. Mary's College, Belfast, and author of the book "Sinn Fein � a Hundred Turbulent Years," urges a tougher approach, in which "sectarian words and acts should be outlawed here in the same way that incitement to racial hatred is outlawed in England, Scotland and Wales."

Shirlow says one problem is that the peace process feels to some Protestants like defeat. "There is no one within unionism telling Protestants they are winning, that the Good Friday [peace] Agreement [of 1998] was good for them and that it maintains the union," Shirlow says. "They can't celebrate it because they are too concerned about the eventual disintegration of the link with Britain."

Billy Hutchinson, who served prison time for crimes committed while he was a loyalist paramilitary fighter, and who is now a Protestant Unionist member of the Northern Ireland assembly, says concerns about sectarianism unfairly focus solely on the Protestant community.

"Catholic sectarian attitudes are alive and well, although Sinn Fein try and deny it." Mr. Hutchinson says. "The difficulty is that the nationalist community has yet to recognise its own sectarianism."

Shirlow suggests harnessing the experience of those best able to challenge sectarianism in their communities � including ex-members of the IRA and of the loyalist paramilitaries, such as Hutchinson. He acknowledges that there might be a public outcry if former prisoners were to receive large amounts of public money but adds: "Many of them have educated themselves out of sectarianism and have the credibility in their areas to lead others away from it."

Noel my friend, I dont think the ENTIRE BRITISH ARMY could convince you to change your beliefs I am just glad to see more people like you becoming more vocal about their beliefs as well. I think you are the only one who will reply to "Lance". After all the Craic from before, I certainly wont waste my time.

I second that.

Hi Noel, Patrick and Fianna.

I think you three have got me totally wrong.

I am not a Unionist. I was not even born in the North. I was born in Dublin.
I have no prejudice in the north, to the Unionist or the Republican cause.

Yes I worked and lived in Belfast, however I now live in London. I moved some months ago. This is just one of the reasons why I have not visited the site recently. You know the other reasons, if you still remember.

I am from the Republic and I have always seen the North as a different country. I did not even take much interest in the political quagmire of the North, until I lived and worked there. Having lived in the North I feel that I have a good understanding to the situation in the North.

When I have nothing to do, I go about surfing around the web, like most of us do. Because I take a big interest into the political situation of Ulster, I do come across Republican and of course Unionist sites.

Naturally both sides promote their side of the story.

I support a democratic solution without one or the other feeling neglected or left out. I do not support a cause (Republican or Unionist) that wants to dictate to the other, or else.

Going back to the posts:

I agree with what Noel has to say to some extent. It looks like the Catholic community are trying harder to adapt to the religious division, than protestants. But then I can see why Unionists want to keep the religious divide (As rightly stated by Noel in his post).

The Unionist is against union with the Republic and in particular the Catholic Church. It is not the Republic of Ireland that is of main concern, it is the fear of being subjugated to a minority within a Catholic Community that will not accept them. The situation in Ulster is a reverse mirror reflection.

In order for the Republican cause to succeed they must firstly identify why their cause is not working or is being accepted by everyone including the Protestant community. History has proven that force will not work. Irelands own past history can show for that.

Republicans should not just be pushing London they should also be pressuring Dublin.
Dublin should promote itself as a more open multicultural society, world-wide. People in Ulster, UK and for the matter, most of the world, identify the Republic as a stringent Catholic country.

The biggest problem with the Republic is that the country is closely tied to the Vatican, more than any other European (including Italy) Country. I agree in the last years the Republic has opened up slightly more, but still the Catholic community in Ireland is a monopoly. You just need to look at percentage of Catholics in Government, and you will see that there is not one Protestant.

The Unionists fear that any form of Union or move towards Union, which includes accepting the Catholic community in Ulster (Going back to the original discussion) will mean the end of their culture and their church. The Unionists believe that they would evolve into a second class people within a Republic. Which is understandable considering that the Protestant community in the Republic accounts for less than 2%. At the time of the Free State (1922) the protestant community consisted of over 20%.

London is simply saying that they will support the wishes of the majority. It is up to the Republic to get this majority. The Republic has to work hard to make Union acceptable. That means opening up old institutions and seats of power and allowing people to have a fair say and a fair contribution, not just for Catholics but to Protestants and other religions alike.

Hi Noel

I agree with you fully here.

In the past most Unionists had their beliefs and ideals and you are right in saying that these Unionists are slowly dying out.

If two sides have legitimate but contradicting ideals, a settlement will always be possible. But a settlement will only be possible if both are open to compromise. That chance of finding a compromise has sadly been overlooked in the past 30 years.

Instead the last 30 years has seen sectarian killings, hate propaganda and political incorrectness leading to the situation where the majorities on both sides (I do not mean you personally) have lost their true ideals in what they were fighting for.

The situation today has turned out to be some kind of rivalry, similar to what I would expect to find at a football match.

I personally believe finding a peaceful settlement now is further away than ever before, not closer as many politicians like to portray.

The so-called 12th celebrations or the marching season in my opinion are a farce. I have seen those bigots on the street of Belfast celebrating. To any normal person or foreigner it seems like some mediaeval procession, out of place and out of time. Worse of all the gatherings are made up, mainly of Scots and Protestant Irish coming from the mainland. Their aim is to get drunk and look for trouble. One just needs to see the ferry port. It is full of these idiots in arriving in their red, white, blue or orange.

You asked what is the Nationalist/Catholics community going to do about the situation. I see no other way, but what they have been doing all the time. �Protecting themselves against intimidation and attack�. I have seen it. But there are also people within the nationalist community who do exactly the same towards the protestants. In the end it simply results in a see - saw scenario.

I think London has to do more to resolve the situation, I think she is trying but failing badly. She has to come up with something that is far fetching and it may appear to some as draconian.

I think London has to be more stringent. Banning events on both sides of the community that are nothing more than racist gatherings. I.e. orange parades.

Troublemakers, hooligans, racists (bigots) should be treated as they are in other parts of the U.K. as anti-socials.

Banning organisations that promote openly or behind closed doors, hatred or violence. That includes the likes of Sinn/Fein or the Ulster Unionists. The electorate in other parts of the U.K. would see both of these parties as extremists.

I would like to see Dublin more involved here in helping London to set up a new (independent of the Republic) political environment in Ulster. An environemnt that is not one sided towards the Catholics or the Protestants.

Regarding one of my previous posts about the young children being raised to hate each other at the age of 5 or 6.

London should promote and finally force through peaceful means mixed Protestants and Catholics communities, eliminating Protestant or Catholic ghettos.

She should also ban Catholic and Protestant only schools and introduce mixed schools, as is the case in most schools in the U.K.

She should introduce positive discrimination to promote equal opportunities for the Catholic community, as she has and still does with other minority communities in the remainder of the U.K.

Together with Dublin she should hold a referendum once every decade concerning the political climate in Ulster. Republic or UK?

It will take a long time, but in the end it will work.

One only needs to look at the 80�s where there was plenty of racial hatred between whites and black or towards minority groups. Some of these measures that I have mentioned were introduced. Today, there is still racial hatred, but this racial hatred has been confined to a very small minority. This minority will always be there.

The aim towards Ulster joining a united Ireland will only be possible on the basis that both Protestants and Catholics alike can live together. As long as this is not the case I cannot see Ulster ever joining the Republic. I would even contemplate whether the Republic would even want to put up with the quagmire. I reckon she would rather leave the trouble with the father, namely the Brits.

Hopefully in the end Catholics and Protestants will live together. If Catholics and Protestants can live in harmony then I believe there will be a very good chance for a united Ireland. Of course Dublin will also have to do her bit as I mentioned in my previous post.

You may reckon I am a bit far fetched here, but the situation in Ireland is far fetched and it will take something of equal calibre to solve it.

First off, I'd like to have been able to reply to this alot sooner, it's a good discussion, but I've been busy as fuck. So I got alot to say. Sorry if it's too long.

LAN' a chara, you've got a very idealistic and naive approach to the whole situation. An approach that, to be honest, I'm sick to the fuckin bone of hearing. Reading through your posts, it seems to me you have a simplistic black & white view on things. Unfortunately the situation isn't as clear as black & white, it's orange, green, blue, red...it isn't as simple as you make out, or would seemingly like to believe it is. And the fact that you lived and worked there doesn't necessarily give you a good grasp of the situation...just look at the native bigots you talk about in your posts that crawl out of their holes every 12th of July. Living there doesn't give you a balanced view.

You make a big point in your post about the fears of the Protestant community towards the apparent "Uber - Catholic State" that is the Republic of Ireland. Now I don't know just how long you've been in England, but it sure seems a fuck of a long time to me if you think Ireland is still under the iron fist of the Catholic Church. But there's no point in me bemoaning the fact that you're an ignorant cunt, because you're insignificant. It's true, as you state, that Northern Protestants have this deep-rooted fear of being drowned out by Catholics. And we have always respected this fear, and done what we can to ease it. It's drawn up in our constitution, a constitution many a Volunteer has died protecting. They have to realise that their culture, heritage and yes, even religion, can flourish and prosper in a United Ireland. And to be perfectly honest, they have no valid reason to think otherwise. Discrimination against Protestants in the Free State is nil, and that happens to be something I'm actually very proud of. It's all about trust, something Unionists just don't seem capable of.

Which brings me nicely to your point about the percentage of Catholics in the Free State government. What the sweet fuck has that got to do with jack shit? I cannot believe you brought that point up...sounds like something a desperate Unionist would quote...funny that. Let me explain to you, seeing as you've been in England so long, you may have forgotten: here in the Free State, your religion has no effect whatsoever on your election to government. When you vote for a candidate, you vote for his policies, his track record, and possibly how funny he looks...not his fucking religion. To say that the lack of Protestant politicians in the D�il is a reflection of some form of discrimination against Protestants is absolute bollox...and just a little bit insulting and offensive.

What Noel says is absolutely right though; religion is now used as an excuse for violence. I don't for one second believe that the various paramilitaries fight their war so that they can pray and worship in peace. Not anymore. Of course it was a large factor in the past, but now religion is simply a way to reinforce cultural differences...almost a clan marking.

History has not "proven that force will not work", quite the opposite. History has proven that a small group of men, fighting against innumerable odds, can rally a whole nation against occupation, and free themselves from bondage. The very state I live in was born through force. I would be a British citizen, a subject of a foreign Queen and be represented by the Union Jack were it not for force, armed resistance and the IRA. Because of these things, I live free, and as a proud Irishman, I would like to see all Irish people have this privilege.

Also, you say that in the last 30 years "both sides have lost their true ideals". That certainly isn't true as far as Republicanism is concerned. I can't speak for Loyalists, (although it seems to me you could LAN') but the 30 years of "the Troubles" were a period of great unity amongst Republicans. Just look how comrades from the IRA and INLA died side by side in '81. It was after peace, after the GFA that cracks began to show.

Anyway, I�ve got a lotta shit to say in response to this, but I�ll finish up now and keep it for another time before this turns into hardback novel material. It�s all about trust. In the 26 Counties we have shown that Catholics and Protestants can live side-by-side, in peace and in trust. Nobody can deny that. To me, that's Unionisms biggest fear out the window. They just have to trust the people they raped, murdered and dispossessed for the past 800 years.

Ah sure we�ve forgotten bout all that at this stage�no bad blood�

Sl�n go foill a chairde, t�im ag dul go dt� mo leaba anois. O�che mhaith!

Hi Noel, Fianna

Yes. I agree with you that I have a black white opinion as to finding a peaceful solution in Ulster. But as I see it:

Black on the one hand (Orange, White and Green)
White on the other (Red, White, Blue and Orange)

The situation in Ulster is simply Black and White. There seems to be nothing in the middle, which combines both (Grey).

With respect to the Catholic situation in The Republic: I know that this is not the real situation, that Protestants have no say or that Protestants are treated as 2nd class. What I am trying to say is that people think of the Republic in that way.

I am not getting at the Republic. I am saying that the Republic has to promote itself more to rid it self of this image and simultaneously purge these fears in the Protestant community in Ulster.

I agree that these fears that the Protestants have are very wrong, but they are there and as long as they are there the Unionists will always have something to campaign for.

Fianna: You say in your own words that this is the only issue that the Unionists have on their plate. Well it is up to The Republic and Republican in Ulster to extinguish these fears.

I agree with you both that it would be great to see an Ireland that is united. But first Ulster has to be united from within.

I think fighting or warfare will never bring about a solution. Yes the Republic was won through a kind of warfare. The case in Ulster is however different. The majority in the South was for some form of independence. In Ulster it was quite the opposite. Fighting in Ulster will only strengthen the resolve of the Unionists, and will always strengthen their case for Ulster being part of the U.K.

Whilst in Belfast I noticed that there is a growing number of protestants wanting to form an independent country of their own, Independent of the U.K. and the Republic. Many Protestants are disillusioned with the U.K. They think the U.K has lost interest and will consequently sell them out to the demands of the Catholics/Nationalists.


I agree that the Republican side has always fought to unite the North with the 26 counties. But the unionist�s cause has always been to fight against the enclosure of Ulster within a Catholic state. The Republic is a Catholic state, having laws that are closely aligned to catholic ideals. You would be wrong in denying that.

So what is your solution? I have mentioned how I would go about solving the problem.

Fighting and forcing Ulster to be part of the Republic? Or trying to appease and win over the Protestant community to come over and join a Republic of Ireland??????.

FIGHTING:
The IRA has been fighting for a long time and has lost many good men. Has this brought
anything? In my opinion NO. I t has brought about the opposite. It has lead to furthering
the resolve of the Protestant community to not being part of the Republic and
has simultaneously lead to what we have today hatred and division.

Catholics have to simply accept the current situation. The Protestants are in the majority. They will always be the ones with the last say, as to whether they will unite with Ireland or remain with the U.K. Fighting them will only bring about the opposite response, that true Republicans are yearning for. It is to late for those on both sides of the community, that have in a way been brainwashed for generations to hate the other. It can only be resolved through the up and coming generations, before they are brainwashed too.

FREE CHOICE:
Ireland will only be united (all 32 counties) if the communities within Ulster are united.

TODAY:
There is a chance for people in Ulster to evolve towards a united community, even if there will or is still hatred. This will naturally die with time along with the hard-liners.

A united Ireland will only be possible after the people of Ulster have united. That means Protestants and Catholics alike will have to give up on their principle ideals, that has divided them for such a long time.

What ideals would you two be willing to give up on?

I have to sadly agree with you both that the situation today has evolved or is evolving in an ever-accelerating manner towards something like, rivalry between two football teams. The saddest development is that I think the majority of troublemakers. I mean from both sides of the community, love the situation as it is and want to keep it that way. Going out, burning flags or beating up the others just for the fun of it.

This I believe is the biggest problem that people will have to face in the future. The original ideals of the past are fast fading, that is on both sides. These ideals are being replaced by troublemakers, using original ideals for their own fun. They have to be dealt with as scum or anti-socials. Only then when people can deal with this problem together, will they be able to forge together their future. That may or may not mean a United Ireland.

You mention that I have lived in England a long-time. I have, but only during the week. I was commuting back and forth for sometime. Sometimes only visiting Belfast once in 3 months. This was usually work dependent. I have to work abroad a great part of my time.

I have now made England/London my home as it is easier for me. I have family here. I like it here. There are no such problems as there are in Ulster. Life is simply better. I just hope one day that, that will also be the case for Ulster. I will not be going back to Ulster, as I have no natural ties there. I will continue to visit Dublin, visiting some of my relatives on the odd occasion.

I just hope that the Republic will not have to deal the shit in Ulster. If Ulster in some-unforeseeable way unites with Dublin, the last thing I want to see is Protestant paramilitaries bombing the hell out of Dublin.

I know I am going to kick myself for even replying, but enough is enough!

"Catholics have to simply accept the current situation. The Protestants are in the majority. They will always be the ones with the last say"

How fat-headed or one-sided is that? Obviously, someone has their head up their arse. The Protestants are the ones who have to accept the NOT-SO-CURRENT,BUT STILL PRESENT situation. The people of Ulster seem to forget that they are UNINVITED GUESTS of Ireland. Why do you think we keep killing you?OMG, You are SO brainwashed. I will reply no further for I have stooped low enough to even reply. Dang!, I told myself I wouldnt do that!

Stop with your majority thing. It's too late, that won't last much longer now. So just forget that and get ready cause the new majority is coming up. Don't be so blind. Why do you think Tony Blair postponned the election? He was scared that the coming change was to be noticed through massive vote for Sinn Fein and that's all. They might not have got the majority yet, but they would have been too close to it...

Slan go foill

Patrick, you say you didn't want to respond to Lance and you did and that maddens you...
I can understand that but I have to admit I only read his 2 first posts here: I just couldn't be bothered anymore reading everytime the same nonsense.
And that's what it is: before the change of the site he was talking nonsense and now he's just doing it again. I'm not wasting my time on him anymore.
He's hasn't an opinion on anything but still he has one on everything...

Just the same load of crap everytime. I don't know why feels the need to come sell his gimmicks over here!

Shame

I was really thinking that this was starting to be a good conversation until a few stupid replies came in.

Werewolf

I am protestant, and yes I lived in the Republic. I was born there. So you do not need to tell me what it is like to live in the Republic as a Protestant. I know.

I can say that people make distinctions, but I can gladly say that it is generally correct what you say for the most parts. Werewolf you are from Finland and not from Ireland. For that reason no one really cares.

There are those in Dublin (Gladly only a small minority) who are also bigots, and me being Irish and protestant automatically places me as a loyalist or Unionist, even if I am not. You can imagine what shit one may receive from a drunken and forlorn Pad in a pub.

Even on this forum I am being identified as a Unionist or Loyalist. How often must I say that I am not a Unionist or Loyalist.? These are the types of issues.


Back to the general discussion:

I was not having a go at the Catholics or the Republicans. Do not get me wrong.

I am trying to put the problem into a different perspective, from point of neutrality. I am also trying to portray (I AM FINDING THIS REAL DIFFICULT, AS SOME OF YOU DONT WHANT TO THINK OR I AM SADLY REALISING: CAN�T THINK)
what the problems in Ulster are. One these problems is how the Republic is portrayed by the Unionists. I am being constructively critical of the republic here. Note constructively


PATRICK
I am not saying to appease to everything that the unionists want.

I am saying the unionists happen to be at the moment (AT THE MOMENT) the majority. If they are the majority and London simply stands by the line Majority will decide UK or REP, common sense tells you that it is up to the minority and they happen to be the Republicans (AT THE MOMENT) to persuade the Unionists. I do not think that you will be able to persuade anyone with bombs or at gunpoint.

Your last point with #The people of Ulster seem to forget that they are UNINVITED GUESTS of Ireland..#

GREAT REALLY INTELLIGENT. That is exactly what the unionists and the loyalists want to hear. With those types of statements you are only feeding the division even more.


Charllotte

Saying that the majority (Protestants) will disappear. Well Charlotte tell me when this majority will disappear? Have you done any population studies?

If there is a trend, then I can tell you that it will take a long time.
Or is that you want to extinguish the whole protestant population?
How would go about doing this. Gassing them? Concentration Camps?
Be serious. The protestants are there and they will always be there.

Christophe

After reading your post (28th August 2003):

Yep another why you are a # bekrompen Waalseeikel of bekropen Vlaamseeikel #


Just another reason why the British Army is still in Ulster. And yet more reasons why there is still division. Great propaganda for the Loyalists and Unionists. They must love it.

TO CLOSE THE DISCUSSION

After reading all of your responses (Excluding Noels and Fianna ) I can sonly ay that the remainder of you have confirmed that ULSTER is as BLACK and WHITE as it can be.
However, most of you are not even Irish or live in Ireland.. There may still be light at the end of the tunnel.

UNLESS Republicans and Unionist alike try to change their opinions about each other drastically the future for Ireland can be easily predicted. No Future.

I can say and EASILY predict that there will never be peace in ULSTER and there will never be a United Ireland. I think you have to change your minds and opinions. You all seem to be young. Think of the world as puzzle. Each piece fits in it place somehow. In Ulster that puzzle still need to be put together.. The solution is out there finding it is another matter.

You may not agree with me and you may slander and slag me off.

But ONE THING IS AND NONE OF YOU CAN DENY THAT. I HAVE TO BE CYCASTIC.

I have started a conversation. Looking at the previous posts, it has been very quiet on this forum lately. And judging by the responses I received I must be more popular than I am lead to believe. You are talking again. Grrreat that is what a forum is about. Keep it up. But try writing something sensible for a change and do keep a cool head.

You, be serious, silly boy !
I didn't say the Protestants would disappear, can't you read properly? I just say they won't be the majority much longer. I have seen the figures and though I am not a demographist, I think it's clear enough.

Charlotte

Do not over estimate your own intellect. In your case this may well be to easy and way to often.

I do not want to get into a childish slanging match with someone half my age and an IQ not worth mentioning.

So just stop it.

Is that because you couldn't read what I was saying properly and now cannot answer to what I've said that you get so bitter ??
I didn't start the stupid childish match, dear, you did so just accept your own responsibility.

And you'd better worry about your own IQ. It's frightenning despite all your "so long experience"

Charlotte

You never know when to stop do you. You indeed have a lot to learn and learn about yourself.

I want to finish this silly discussion once and for ALL��..

You never understood in the first place what I said.

I said QUOTE "If the protestant majority were to disappear"

Meaning: Demographic change towards a Catholic majority. I did not mean they would disappear over night with a wave of the wand. This would be of great help to us all if possible, but unfortunately will never happen.

I also said that this would take a long time.

You have to realise that there are many Irish loyalists living outside Ulster in other parts of the world. If there was to be referendum of some kind, many of these would return to Ulster or cast an overseas vote as expatriates. This would definitely happen if a vote were to be close or even go against them.

You cannot simply take into account the demographic picture of Ulster as it stands. You also have to take into account the hidden figures. Do you know that there is more Irish living abroad with British passports, than there is in Ulster? The majority of these Irish are loyalists, and they all have the right to vote.

Like I said it would take a very long time. I hope you now and finally understand.

Before you list your premature replies, re-read and check and check and re-check. And get your facts right.

This is all I have to say about this issue.

LAN', who are you to judge the quality of posts on this board and the intelligence, intellect and IQ of the posters? What makes your views more legitimate and worthy than that of Werewolves? You tell us at length that you oppose discrimination against any person based on their religion or claim of nationality, yet in the same breath you tell Werewolf "you are from Finland and not from Ireland. For that reason no one really cares". I find myself once again having to remind you about basic Irish history; one of our greatest leaders and patriots was Theobald Wolfetone... a Frenchman. Are you going to tell me "no one really cares" what he had to say? He wasn't from Ireland. You're a hypocrite, an ignorant fuck and a condescending cunt.

Does anybody else notice how these discussions with Loyalists/Unionist/idiots always descend into personal slagging matches? Noel's absolutely right, it's just a riot of words. LAN', you have 9 posts here on this board. Yet you seem to think you are in a position to insult long-standing and respected members (Charlotte), completely dismiss new members who are only giving their welcome opinion (Werewolf...who incidentally has the same number of posts as you), and even think you have the right to bring the discussion to an end when you've grown tired of your little game. To be honest with you, I'd rather read through Charlotte's 248 posts (twice) than have to wade through your confused ramblings.

Anyway, back to what's important (and despite what your considerable ego might think LAN', that isn't you). It's a real cowards way out to predict that there "will never be peace in Ulster". To quote yourself LAN', "GREAT REALLY INTELLIGENT. That is exactly what the unionists and the loyalists want to hear. With those types of statements you are only feeding the division even more". Couldn't have put it better myself mo chara.

You say there's no future for Republicans and Loyalists if sentiments towards each other don't change. Well Republicans and Nationalists have never had a future under the rule of Unionism, so there's nothing new there. It's for an equal future that we fight for, and the only way this can be achieved is the smashing of the continuing Unionist control, as portrayed by the "veto" power they possess with the blessing of the Brit Government, which they use to hold the Republican movement and the people of Ireland ransom with. It's strange how you say the problem in Ireland is complicated like a "puzzle", yet at the same time think its simply "black and white", but that's more to do with your misinterpretation of the situation than anything else. But you're right in saying that the solution is out there somewhere. But armed struggle is just as legitimate an answer as any other solution...and maybe even more so in the context of Irish history. Irish history LAN', remember that? If you need any help with it give me a PM...

Sl�n go foill a chairde

Thanks lot, Fianna.

By the way, you so clever LAN', mind the way you state things if you don't want them to be misunderstood.

Fianna

Fine I accept your opinions about me. You do not agree with mine, however I do not agree with yours either. Everyone has a right to opinion. As it istands this right is also practiced in Ulster.

It seem however that if people do not agree with you and your opinions, then all that you have to offer is..... Well I do not need to mention it is written all over your posts.

Getting to your point concerning Werewolf. Let me reiterate. I did not in anyway try to degregate Werewolf because he is a Finn.

I think was I quite clear with my statement. There is a difference of opinion towards a protestant in Dublin. Be he from Finnland he is seen as a guest or a tourist. Be he from Ireland he is seen as a loyalist or anti-republican.
I think you should understand that. I cannot put it more simply across. I am not an author of childrens books. Sorry.

You have your opinions in solving the problem in Ulster. I have that right not to agree with them.<However you mentioning "MY" confused ramblings. Rambling??
You want an equal future do you? But equal to your terms only. That seems confusing or as you put it Rambling.

You STATE # It's for an equal future that we fight for, and the only way this can be achieved is the smashing of the continuing Unionist control #

I do not quite understand your point here. Equal future but you want to smash the unionist control. Unionist control as you put is there because they are in the majority.

(Forget about the past. I want to talk about the future) I write this as I expect you to come to me with the same old boring story about past, the so called division of Ireland and the bad bad Brits.

You have a right to a single vote as any other Irish men in Ulster. be he unionist or republican. I think that is about as equal as can be in this case. Smashing?? Well that sounds rather heavy handed doe it not? It defiantely does not sound like equality. It sounds more like oppression to me. I have a different understanding of equality, obviously so do you.

Charlotte

Still you do not understand. Read the whole para and not just the lines you pasted.

I will not even bother answering you here.

I cannot believe that you are still continuing with this issue. Is it because you want to wind me up or is that you are even more stupid than I first anticipated. WellI believ the precedent.

Please put this issue now to bed. Thankyou

You never learn, do you ?
Some time ago you had taken a wise decision : leave us in peace. Why didn't you keep it ?
About what you just told me, well I do not have to answer, my precedent posts were clear to everyone except you.

Like fuck you're getting the last say on this LAN'...

Just what exactly is written all over my posts LAN'? A strong opinion is all that you will find. And that's what people like you are afraid of; Republicans with strong opinions and ideals. Because it's people with strong ideals, and the belief to carry them out, that change things.

And there�s no need to reiterate about your attitude toward Werewolf, you simply dismissed his opinion and quite clearly so.

I'm sorry you don't quite understand my point about ending Unionist control to create equality, but that's more to do with your ignorance than any ambiguity on my part. Let me spell it out for you, so that you fully understand my point:

At present, there is not equality in the 6 counties. Maybe this is what you fail to understand, you've bought into the illusion that Nationalists now have an equal say in their future with the signing of the GFA, but this isn't so. There is continuing discrimination against Catholics and Nationalists. We've come a long way in the past few years, things have improved, but inequality remains.

The cause? Unionist rule, and their abuse of power which has lead to the collapse of power sharing institutions, as they hold the people of the 6 Counties ransom to their demands. Stormont was the chance for Unionists to prove to the world that they were ready to live as equals with Nationalists, but instead they proved beyond doubt that they as determined as ever to cling onto their position of power and dominance in the 6 Counties. Their ability to veto any attempts to create a fair society in the 6 Counties is a fucking disgrace, as is their reluctance to share even the least bit of power with Nationalists and Catholics.

The cure? Like I've said, nothing short of the "smashing" of this rule. And yes LAN', smashing means taking direct action. What's wrong with being "heavy handed" when it brings about a fair society, an equal society, when it overthrows a regime that is not representative of the population? Are you going to tell me that America and Britain were "heavy handed" in taking down the regime of Saddam Hussein? I have a different understanding of equality, obviously so do you...

"Forget about the past"�the favourite saying of any Unionist worth his salt. Forgetting the past is very easy for Unionists, because it wasn't with their blood that their power was built on. It would suit the Unionists just fine to forget the past.

By forgetting the past it would be like washing their hands of 800 years of Catholic blood. What murderer wouldn't jump at such an opportunity?

By forgetting the past they would be cleared of all their crimes and atrocities. What criminal wouldn�t jump at such an opportunity?

By forgetting the past they would be absolved; forgiven without any penance. What sinner wouldn�t jump at such an opportunity?

We will never forget the past. To forget the past is to forget all those who died proudly in our name so that we one day we might be free in a united land. Maybe Unionists have no problem betraying their martyrs and heroes, but we as Republicans do.

On a final note: stick that up your fat shit hole and choke on it until your last breath, you fuck-faced faggot. I'm convinced you're the bastard offspring of Ian Paisley, although at the same time that's an insult to Paisley and bastards. Please ban me Bjorn, it�s becoming tedious answering to this ignorant motherfucker�

Sl�n tamaill

I've been reading the posts on this thread for a while and I haven't commented because the others have (and still are) doing a fine job. But I must take issue with something that LAN' wrote:

"(Forget about the past. I want to talk about the future) I write this as I expect you to come to me with the same old boring story about past, the so called division of Ireland and the bad bad Brits. "

As every well educated school boy and girl can tell you, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" But from what I've seen you missed school that day.....or just aren't well educated...but I don't know you personally and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

History MAKES the future....the reason you're a miserable twit (or at least come off as one) is that you were taught by people who were taught by people who were taught by people who said that it was OK to just go and take away what was not theirs. And those are the kind of people who LOVE to forget history; thieves and low lives....people of no conscience...They have the most to gain by forgetting the past...the past is not always pretty....but it won't be forgotten by those who were wronged... YES....everyone needs to look to the future.....but not while turning a blind eye to the past. It's people like you that truly are blocking any progress.

That's all I'll comment on this...I hope the rest of you don't mind that I put in my two cents' worth on this topic....but I couldn't keep it to myself any longer.

Without the past, there's no future...

Bloody Hell. What have I sparked off here. By the number of insults I am getting I must have hurt some of your feelings. or is because those points I come up with are legitimate or is because " Hey lets join in " with the mentality of a pack of hyenas.

You all seem to like to insult me. What I have been called so far?
> I have my head up my arse,
> I am a fuck face and a cunt,
> An idiot.
> A badly educated ignorant..........
> A unionist. (That is the worse one)

All because I do not agree in the fruitless banter. I do not mind if we cannot agree with each other but falling to such levels as some of you have done is embarrassing. Not just for yourselves but to the Republican cause.

What else do you all have in stock for me?

Getting back to the serious stuff.

Noel is quite correct. I am neutral. I am here from an argumentation point (on this forum). But personally I am more inclined towards republicanism. I also hope to see a united Ireland one-day, but I do not want to see that on the basis of bloodshed.

I hope to see a united Ireland on the basis that the people of Ulster want to be part of us. The last things I want to see are Unionists campaigning for freedom and yielding to violence, IN THE REPUBLIC, as the IRA has in Ulster.

HISTORY!!!!!

I quite simply put it. History is the past. The future is the history of the future. This new history is in your hands. I agree that history has something to do with our culture and will have an impact on our future. But it is how we can use history and enable history to help us build a future and a united Ireland. Whining and crying about the past and neglecting the future gets us nowhere.

Yes I understand those anti Unionist and anti Brit. feelings and how us Irish were badly treated., but one needs to have a cool head. Remembering is not a bad thing, but it can be bad if it stops us from advancing. The GFU is a good start. Yes it may not be acceptable to the Republicans, but Unionists are not too happy either. To some extent it is a first compromise. Compromise is the only way we can go forward.

I know my past. I know the history of Ireland very well. True history is there and can never be changed. Sadly history can be re-written in the minds of people who are ignorant enough to only want to understand a their point of view. This I believe is Irelands pain. She has a bloody past history, and she cannot deal with it.

The future! Well that can only be presumed and has yet to be written. It is here that we cannot be ignorant. Ignorance will continue to divide our land and our future.
IGNORANCE

This brings me to the issue of ignorance. Some of you talk about ignorance as if you found and invented the word. I have never seen this word misused and abused as it has here.

Some of you do not quite understand the meaning of ignorance. Or is that some of you are too ignorant to want to understand the meaning.

Some of you are so imbedded with hatred that you forget that and IGNORE everything around you. Forgetting that the continuing problems of today in Ireland are to blame mainly on ignorance. Has anyone hear of the term � Socratic Ignorance in Democracy,
the Free Market, and Science� You may learn something.

GFU.

The unionists do have a veto, however only on the basis that they are in the majority. Do any of you understand. I try again. It is up to the nationalists to get a majority in Ulster. The unionists can then stick their veto up their arse.

Now is the chance to have a peace. Only with peace and a united Ulster will there be any chance for a united Ireland.

So to the true Irish on this forum, stop being ignorant to yourselves and those around you. Open up your eyes. With the GFU you have a basis. You also have a chance to form it in your way and to form it ultimately towards a united Ireland.

Don't complain about the insults you get when you insult everyone. I have not forgotten that I am "someone half your" age and an IQ not worth mentioning." You might say I get easily upset and well I won't object, it's true.

The worst in all that is that i'm pretty sure that if you took the time to explain your views rather than telling us all how young and ignorant we are, you would find out you don't disagree that much with us. After all the main point is that we want a United Ireland.

Charlotte

That was the first some what sensible answer I received from you. Thank you.

I am actually not complaining about the insults that I have received. Those insults lead me to believe, that people on this forum are actually thinking about what I have been saying. Resorting to insults is usually a sign of weakness, used by those that can no longer add anything constructive.

You mention that I have thrown insults at people. I agree that to some who identify themselves with those expressions may feel personally affected and identify them as insults.

I did, however only respond to insults originally thrown at me. You only need to look through the posts. Netherless I will not be inticed to low calibre, primitive language.

I fully agree with your statement � division is something that we have to live with� but the remainder. The bit with the IRA? The IRA and the violence associated with it will only supplement the divide, and yes we will then have to continue to live with division. Is that what young republicans want?

With respect to your statement about compromise:

Of course you will always find it easier to find a compromise between republicans, particularly if they all have the same opinion. The biggest challenge is to find a compromise with those that disagree with you. Compromise is a daily feat in life, government, at work, at school and at home. Without compromise we would all be fighting each other. Is this not just one of the failings in Ulster.

Ignorance:
I will not write about ignorance again. However I only mentioned this word in my last post as I was accused of ignorance. You do not know me, however if you did you would quickly realise that I am not ignorant. I am actually very open minded and open to peoples opinions. In my role of work I have to be. I also have to think how to achieve my business aims. At the end of the day my achievements will be a result of tactical thinking and the intrigacies of applied strategy.

Republican and young republicans in particular have to think in a similar ways today. To get towards a goal one has to sometimes accept decisions, policies and the current events, even if these go against ones own pricples. However if a strategy is thought through effectively with a single goal in mind such drawbacks can be easily compensated. Drawbacks can even be used later to ones own advantage. That is where todays Republican will have the chance to apply thier cause, through the GFU.

Hi all

Well I just been reading the stuff above and really there's no need for the abuse.

This is a forum and as such it should allow everyone to express their opinion and for those opinions to be debated.

If you don't agree with a posting does that mean it is wrong ?

Cop on to yerselves.

Daithi

Relax, it's just piss taking, nothing to get upset about. LAN' might not have the right attitude towards Republicanism, but hey, he doesn't get upset by words. Good for him. But I never insulted the guy out of the blue for no reason...I never dedicated any post to just insulting the guy...just after I'd made my point. So what you say about having nothing constructive to add when you insult somebody is bollox. It's just a way to vent.

And what's wrong with "primitive" language?!

Fianna

Nought wrong with primitive language. Can be useful to get to a point quickly......

I have no probs with the language nor do I have a problem being called names. I do no really give a shit.

I would like to add more but I have no time at the moment.

So till next time

What a sad fuck LAN must be... I don't bother anymore to reply the cunt. In my opinion he isn't neutral, he just doesn't know what to think or do. One red line through his posts: doubt and profiling himself as the better intellectual. He must be really with no self-confidence at all, the only thing he cares about is people think of him as a smart succes-in-life gentleman, no agreements of opinion.
The most people I know who show the need to portray themselves as "smart and popular" are mostly sad nerds...
I can talk with most people decently, political enemy's etc, but he's sad.
PLAIN AND SIMPLY SAD...

En als ge Vlaams wilt spreken, sukkel, leert 't dan eerst. Ik zit hier ook niet in lagere-school Engels te spreken. Ik verwijt u niet van vuile Engelsman of Ier, geen enkel van beiden! Als ge een volk (Vlamingen en Walen, Belgen dus) wilt beledigen door mij bekrompen Vlaamseikel of bekropen Waalseikel te noemen, doe zo voort, maar ga dan tenminste eerst Nederlands gaan leren. Imbeciel!

A personal for LAN there...

Eikel

U hebt aan me bewezen dat u een echte eikel bent.

Leer iets eerst over uw eigen land.

Als u het beste bent dat Belgi� moet aanbieden. Ik voel droevig voor toekomst Belgiums.

Houd uw woord (antwoord niet). Krijg kanker