The UVF occupying Garnerville yesterday. I don�t see this mentioned anywhere. I don�t know why, sorry if somebody has already posted about it, it sure got me angry. It�s further proof as if it were needed of the blatant hypocrisy and double standards of the British Government.

How can troops and police stand by and do sweet fuck all as they allow a group, which the British themselves have officially classed as an illegal terrorist organization, gather in broad daylight, in their hundreds, to forcibly remove people from their homes? If more than half a dozen IRA members were to knowingly congregate in one spot you'd have half a fucking battalion in place to deal with them. There'd be no "easing of tension", "evaluating the situation" or "gathering evidence" as the fucking PSNI declared they were doing yesterday; there'd be body bags in the back of Land Rovers, simple as that.

It wasn't too long ago that British troops would kill on sight anybody seen approaching a suspected arms dump; that was deemed evidence enough of "terrorist" activity. What fucking more proof do you need of membership of an illegal organization than publicly massing in an estate and forcibly moving people out in the name of the UVF? Not a single arrest. Not so much as even an attempt to move the mob along. If the same amount of Republicans were to gather to peacefully protest the visit of a British MP, as did happen recently, you have a full fucking riot squad to deal with it. Double fucking standards.

Fucking sickens me that the Brits will shoot dead an innocent Brazilian civilian, who was deemed a terrorist simply because he ran away from trigger-happy undercover narks, and yet here standing meters in front of troops are dozens and dozens of "terrorists", as declared by the British Government. Murderous fucking scum who in the last few days have set off blast bombs, fire bombs and murdered two people, yet they do absolutely fucking nothing.

In a few days there�s expected to be a new IRA statement. If this statement doesn�t include full decommissioning, full disbandment, and fucking blowjobs for every DUP assembly member, all we�ll hear about is how Republicans are stalling peace in Ireland. Fuck that. Look at what has happened yesterday and the past few days. Killings, bombings and mob rule. Orange killings, bombings and mob rule. Remember this day when Paisley is spewing his bullshit in a few days time about how Republicans aren�t going far enough.

Sorry for the language, I just find it sickening. Sl�n.

ok, I lied, one more post here then I'm finished ....

You said ...



I had said at many previous posts that I didn't agree and I didn't support the killing of children and women (least the innocent ones) and blokes that didn't want to be involved. I have never liked that aspect. What I did say is that their deaths weren't without reason. I have no feelings one way or the other about individual unionists ... or prodestants. Let me tell you a story also, one of my brother (one of them anyhoo). His name was Wesley. Now imagine, Derry, bogs, with a name like Wesley .... how do you think he was treated? That's part of the reason he is no longer here. I've had many brothers. I don't have any brothers now. You want me to show the positive, something good about the unionists and prodestants. It would be easy for me to show the good in some of the prodestants .. many of them in fact, as some of them were even responsible for the Republic's separation from the UK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's partly why I said it wasn't a religious war, but some people are biggoted. The problem I had most is with the BA, Loyalists, and the PSNI. Feel free to add in all the ancronyms as you wish, you know all of them also. But don't ever presume that I support all that the IRA has done. Just as I'd support my brother, love him and such, but not approve of all his actions and wish he'd done things differently at times. I can say some things were accidents ... not saying it was right and that it should have happened ... all I'm saying is that it wasn't intended the way it happened. There are hardliners who would just dismiss children and their mums or even the elderly as just a casualty of war. I don't in any way support that and nor would I ever support that. I would, however, see anyones death, no matter how wrong and needless it was, as necessary. I believe different than others I suppose. I believe that all ... ALL things happen for a reason. I don't judge God and his reasoning for letting those things happen. If you challenge that then you challenge the authority of God. If he can perform miracles, if he can heal the sick, if he can change the hardest hearts into the softest ones, why couldn't he stop a needless death from happening? The thing is he can and has done so many times for many others, but there was a reason he LET, not made, those things happen. I'm not trying to say their deaths were good things, but I can say they're probably in a much better place than we are, and through their deaths so many more people that held on to all that hate have given it up because they can't see this death any more. Sometimes it's in the not seeing that we begin to see what is and isn't as important. I just need you to realise I don't condone the murder of anyone innocent like that. As I said I compare it to family ... actions you hate, the people and general ideology you don't. They are changing. I hope it stays this way. I've dealt with a few issues myself.

The whole thing for me about those deaths is that if I could trade places with any of those that died innocently I'd do it without even a moments thought. You really have no idea Setanta. When I say any of them, if I had the chance, yes I would even change places with a unionist who died as an innocent. That has nothing to do with it. The fact they died and it shouldn't have happened, if I could I'd give all I had to bring them back, I'd trade places with them. I'd do whatever it took to bring their life back. I really wish you could see who I am, then you'd see I'm not as much of a hardliner as you seem to think I am. You said you weren't particularly morally superior, but you were to those that have commited murder. Let me ask you a question ... what do you consider murder? and please don't laugh and please don't think I'm being flippant here, as there are different ways to look at taking someone's life. i.e. would you consider killing in order to keep yourself alive (self defense) as murder? If you were protecting yourself or someone you love, is that murder? Say you were home, sleeping, and you're weeans were in the other room sleeping also, someone was in the house and they were trying to kill you or your weeans .... if you killed them to stop them, is that murder also? and would you say you were bad for having done so and should be judged a murderer? Say a few people did horrific things to you, beat you, raped you, tried to kill you and left you for dead ... you came back and paid some of them back ... what would you call that? especially if that person wasn't in their right mind at the time and had kinda lost the plot? would you hold them accountable the same as those that do it out of hatred, biggotry and racism? or would you judge them differently?

I also think there is a few of us that are a bit more wordy than others .. that can be a good thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and it has been rather busy in here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) you're most welcome for my replies, even if I don't think you like the majority of them, but least you know there are some things that we do agree upon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And as for your challenge, at the moment isn't easy to see past doom and gloom, but I have my reasons at the moment. Might also be a bit selfish and is why I'd be more than happy to trade places with any of those that had lost their lives innocently, so perhaps that wasn't such a grandiose gesture after all. I'm not always like this as Keltic banshee can tell you, I do have my times of being positive and uplifting and keep my chin up and kick some arse attitude .... but not at the moment, so I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a pessimistic wee shit, just gimme a couple weeks and I'll be back to my cheerful self again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Actually give me till Feb when I can actually put on a happy face. The holidays aren't a good time for me and for that I'm sorry. For about a month before Chrissie till about a month after new years .. I'm kinda same (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

hehe. THe Irish-in-exile are too busy fighting the Italian Americans.

Of course we still hate the British looking down their perfumed noses at us.

I've got to correct this. In Northern Ireland, and in the rest of the United Kingdom, voting takes place by secret ballot. You get a peice of paper with the list of candidate's names on them with little boxes beside the names which you either tick or put in order of preference by entering a number in. The place in which you do this is a private booth. You then fold your voting slip and put it into the locked ballot box.

There is nobody watching.




The Guilford Four and the Birmingham Six are a couple, out of a handful of cases, in which people were wrongly convicted based on circumstantial evidence, or forced confessions.




There are a few films called Bloody Sunday. The best one was the one which starred James Nesbitt as the Protestant Nationalist Ivan Cooper.




You sound just as paranoid as the loyalists. Many of them believe there is no alternative, other than a 32-county Republic. There is no option to vote for NI to stay in, and remain indefinately in, the UK.

Don't forget that the Dail (the government of the Republic of Ireland) helped create the GFA, as did Sinn F�in and all the other political parties involved. They all support the GFA, with the exception of the DUP. Even the DUP say they are willing to move on with the GFA if the IRA disarmed. The Continuity IRA and the 'Real' IRA don't support the GFA though.




If we voted for a change, and they didn't comply, then they - and by they I mean the governments of the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom - would be in breach of an international agreement. They could be taken to court and forced to impliment the conditions promised in the GFA.

I feel it is extremely unlikely that they would not comply though. You are basing your premise on a feeling you have given some actions of the old British Empire and of events that took place 100s of years ago. You fail to realise that there is no longer any strategic or economic interest in Northern Ireland. Because of new technology (with regard to weapons, aircraft etc), Northern Ireland is not quite as important militaristically. The demise of Northern Ireland's money-making industries and the fact that the place has no natural resources with the exception of its labour force, also mean that there is no selfish interest that the government could possibly have in holding on to the territory.

So relax!




I should point out that that film is full of 'artistic licence'. For example, he never met his father in prison.




For every picture you could paint of such attrocities, I could paint you an equally disturbing picture of a similar event carried out by the other 'side'. The wee Prod beaten because he dared going out with a Catholic, and that is what her Catholic brothers and sisters thought of her going with a Prod. More often than not, however, these people were beaten by people from their 'own side'. Thankfully, this occurs less and less often these days.




Equally, I could go on about the man who was tortured so badly by the IRA (limbs and genitals removed, lacerations all over his body) because he was protestant and not even part of the UDA or UVF... about people who also were pushed to get involved in something they'd previously thought was nuts.



Indeed.




.. also about firemen or ambulance crew lured into Republican areas, whereby they were shot, beaten, stoned or petrol bombed. Postmen blown up by handling the IRA's notorious letter-bombs, the families who opened the letter-bombs, houses that had petrol bombs thrown into the bedrooms and living rooms, killing those inside, or forcing the families to relocate...




And yet, around 1,700 innocent people have been killed.

And what is the difference between murdering a child and murdering the man down the street who beat up his wife on a daily basis? His lifestyle still doesn't give the IRA or the UVF the RIGHT to end it.



My native American Indian cousins love me...




What do you think about the Protestants in the Republic of Ireland, who numbered around 300,000 in 1911 - about 10% of the population, but only around 90,000 today - less than 2% of the population?




Now let's get this straight here: you're talking about the Orange Walks, yeah? Those parades are part of our culture, and have nothing to do with beating anyone else down.

Not only that but who is to allow or disallow them anything? As it is, the Parades Commission does indeed decide whether to allow or disallow certain parades. But that flies in the face of democracy and the right to lawful assembly.

Most of the people that take part in, or watch, the parades have nothing to do with "beating people down". Some of them have even been "beaten down" by the other 'side'.




Who did you say was trying to be peace keepers..?

"Orange bastards", eh? Should I, at this point, say in retaliation, "Fenian bastards"..? Or might that be offensive perhaps?




Assuming you're still talking about the Orange Walks, here's a few ideas as answer to your questions:

1. The government doesn't provide the parades with protection. The government provides all parades that they are previously alerted to, policing in order to control traffic en route.

2. Considering the number of Orange Walks and band practices that are attacked by disgruntled Roman Catholics, the police are also on standby to prevent the two sides from getting at eachother.

3. They don't march through your neighbourhoods. For a start, they walk through neighbourhoods of their land. Many of them are traditional routes. There are a few routes that are marked as being 'contentious'. These number about a dozen per year .. out of something like 2,300 parades. Most of these merely pass by stauchly Catholic areas .. not through.




Why is it important to reject them?




Whoever claimed the Orange Walks to be about peace..?




They've never tried to stop a Patrick's Day parade... ever. However, certain Republican elements have made it quite an exclusive club to celebrate. With the wealth of Republican tricolours being flown, I feel I am no longer welcome to celebrate that day. It has been hijacked: Prods not welcome.

Thankfully though, Belfast City has decided to attempt a non-sectarian celebration of Patrick's Day next year. I hope it all goes to plan and that no Republicans arrive in Belfast in force with their tricolours and spoil the day.

The only Easter Rising parades to have been stopped were the ones that were contentious. These parades are usually confined to solely Republican areas these days though.




When are they told this? Who by?




When did I ever claim there was no discrimination?




Because, at this period in our history, they attract trouble if they aren't. Orange parades attract trouble if they pass through, or even nearby, Republican areas. This is why our parades MUST be confined to our neighbourhoods.




Because they're not. The Parades Commission ensures this. No parades are allowed to go ahead without prior approval by the Parades Commission.

Aye the vote is supposed to be secret, but they know who is entering ... they know which way you're voting (to a certain degree). They aren't complete eejits there. I'd also like to say there is people there watching ... maybe not as you're voting .. but as you walk in and as you walk away they are most certainly there watching and if you say nowt ... then I'd assume you've never participated in elections/voting.


I do agree that is the best Bloody Sunday (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Everyone did have their hand in the creation of the GFA and honestly, not all the things they've said were actually done. Why have they not lived up to all they've said in the GFA? I'm only curious as to why you think the GFA has been upheld, or do you think it has?

The point is, In The Name Of The Father, shows how unjustly people were accused and tried and sentenced, so to speak. There is artistic license in nearly everything you see. Is why I've also always believed in, 'Believe nothing of what you hear and only half what you see.'

The thing is .. if a man is beating his wife down the street and one of the family took it upon himself to make sure it didn't happen again, I'd judge him less harshly than someone who murders without reason. I see why some people do what they do and can understand it. That has nothing to do with the troubles per se, but at the same time, the troubles can be intertwined within those kinds of problems, such as a prod and a catholic being married. It does and probably will continue to happen. Why do those kinds of people get together in the first place if it is such a problem?

Ah, yes the NA do love us Irish people. Least the ones I was with did, but they didn't like American white people. I can assure you after spending several months, and hearing how they do feel a certain kinship with our people and I'd say of the four reservations I have been at in my life, nearly every single one of them agreed with the IRA. I'm sure there's those that didn't, but I was only at Cheyenne and Sioux reservations. When they did have American visitors, they weren't even allowed in certain areas, that I myself was allowed at. Live with and among them for months and then you'd know, but till you've spent time with them and actually living in their conditions and also till you've actually participated in some of their ceremonies, then you wouldn't understand.

And as for the number of prod in the Republic ... they weren't all slaughtered. Many of them moved ... and there is a BIG fucking difference between millions of people slaughtered and entered into slavery then a couple hundred thousand. And the prods weren't the original people in Ireland. That also makes a BIG difference. I don't see how you can even compare the two. What happened to the NA was by far loads worse than what has ever happened to any of our people on ANY side. The NA were 99% of the population until the British/French people invaded THEIR land.

If you were to call me a fenian bastard, or a fenian cunt, or a fenian anything, at this time I'd just smile and thank you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm not sure where you're at, but I can say this .. they are allowed to march through some of our areas. You call them walks, but it is a march .. hence 'marching season.' You say they've never tried to say no St. Patrick's Day parade and yet they have talked about it. You also said none of the parades are allowed to g'wan without the parades commission approval ... yet when have the orangies ever been denied the right to march? When has it ever even come close knowing what kinda shit happens when they do? they said we can't have our parades at times, even if they change their minds, just because of the trouble that ensues ... seriously .. it happens both ways and yet they've not even come close to stopping the Orangies. You say they ruin it with the flying of the tricolour ... let me ask you a question .. isn't it just as offensive for those of us who want a united Ireland to see a Union Jack? The first parades always displayed the tricolour. That is tradition. Just as you think the Orangies have a right to march and proclaim their traditions, why is it that we should be denied ours? I'm having a difficult time understanding how someone could say it's ok for one and not for the other, cause to me that's just bullshit. You claim to love your Irish heritage just as much as your British heritage. Then why would a tricolour be offensive? That is a part of where you come from, a part of your heritage .. a part of our culture ... so you don't appreciate your culture as much as you said I suppose. It is a flag. It is a symbol for some of us of what we wish could have been and what we wish it could be now. There is nothing wrong with a tricolour. When I've been at the states, I've seen states fly separate flags from the USA flag (not sure what exactly they call it, I've heard it referred to as the 'Stars and Stripes', so I hope that is appropriate), as well as State flags, and even other flags that I'm not completely sure what they're about. What you're saying to me is a kind of discrimination ... even a kind of ethnic cleansing as you mentioned before. Some of us chose to get Irish passports ... some of us say we're Irish (as we DO have that right), so why shouldn't we have the right to fly the tricolour? If we are given the choice to which we want to claim, they why shouldn't we be allowed, without prejudice, to fly the tricolour? You can have your precious union jack .... why can't we have our tricolours?

Also, let me ask you, if someone KYA would you like it if they kept going around you during certain times of the year bumming themselves up for having done so? and they kept at it relentlessly without hesitation? They are NOT confined to their own neighbourhood. Maybe they're proud of how they treated our people in the past .. I could always bring up the Apprentice Boys since I've seen more of them than the Orangies ... but it's the Orangies that I've gotta deal with where I live at now (thankfully I'm away at the moment and have been for a wee while). I also wonder how you handled bullies. How do people handle a bully? They eventually stand up to them and are always trying to KTA when they feel they're stepping over that invisible line. I do suppose that you think Fleadh shouldn't be a part of our culture either eh? Just curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

'They' still don't know who you voted for, unless you tell them, or flash your voting slip around the place, or discuss it loudly with someone.




I think it teetered on the brink for a while. And here's why: the DUP became the biggest Unionist party in the last election. They were also, therefore, the biggest political party in Northern Ireland. The DUP had initialy been rejectionist of the GFA. BUT, the IRA have made this last, and greatest, effort to decomission. It remains to be seen just how much unionists, and the political parties that represent them, trust the IRA (and therefore Sinn F�in). If the IRA hadn't done that, then there would have been no chance that the GFA would work. As it stands, due to the secrecy the IRA insisted on with the decomissioning event, and due to the suspicion thrown onto the clerics that witnessed it, it still teeters slightly. But we're in a better position for the GFA to work now that we were before the IRA decomissioned.




That same attitude can be seen in Unionists regarding IRA decomissioning.




I don't recall any of us being slaughtered or enslaved.




One could never suggest that Protestants were the first people in Ireland. After all, Protestantism only came into being in the 1500s. Roman Catholics also were not the first people in Ireland. Christianity only came to Ireland around 400 AD.. and even then, the biggest influence in that respect was a man called Patrick who was not of the Roman Catholic Church.




lol! Well, it comes from the tribe Feni, which meant 'land-owning freeman'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)





It has always traditionally been called the Orange Walk. The word "march" was applied to it be the media.

They don't walk through neighbourhoods which are predominantly Roman Catholic. Only a couple get close to that... and that's out of over 2,000 Walks and Band events.




I'm not sure what you mean. All I'm aware of really is that fact that myself and my family always used to celebrate Patrick's Day. And it was never a big parade or event until after the Americans started celebrating it. And these days it is less attractive to Irish Protestants in general because of the emphasis of the Republic's tricolour. Everything is green-white-gold... its become a political statement instead of a cross-relgion, religious celebration!




They were denied to right to march down the Garvaghy Road. I don't keep track of all the routes of course, but that one is well known.




I never suggested it wasn't. I personally would not fly either a tricolour or a Union Jack at a Patrick's Day parade. I will more than likely be flying the flag of Patrick himself next year.




Are you still talking about Patrick's Day parades?




I never suggested that anyone should be denied the right to lawful assembly. As fr as I'm aware, the vast majority of Republican parades take place within Republican communities, and so they are not contentious, and nor are they banned.




Perhaps you haven't understood fully what I had said.



I have no problem with the tricolour when it is flown at the correct time and place. But the tricolour is the flag of a different country - not my country. It has nothing to do with me other than that it represents the fact that 26 counties split from Ireland to form their own country.




The tricolour was chosen to represent the Free State (now called the Republic of Ireland). It has nothing to do with me, except in the fact that it is the flag of our closest neighbouring country. The flag of Ulster is something I am proud of though. It means more to me because I am an Ulsterman. The Northern Ireland flag means something to me because it was based on the Ulster flag. The Union Jack means something to me because it include within it, the flag of Patrick which represents the Irish people within the British nation.




The problem arises when the flag is abused. And, in fact, both flags are abused.. to show political 'power'. They are used to wind up the 'other side'. Northern Ireland is, for now, a part of the United Kingdom. Its official flag is the Union Jack.




You'll have to explain the acronym "KYA"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)




Who treated who what way..?




There are no parades after October anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




Why shouldn't it..?

Sooooooooooooo, they can't tell who you voted for ... in the literal sense you're right ... but in another sense you're wrong. Say someone with a celtic tattoo goes to vote .. tell me ... who do they assume you're voting for? Honestly ... in each community, everybody kinda knows everybody. Even if they don't know your name, they still know which side of the fence you walk upon.

As for the GFA, I do partially agree with you, but also think it's just no the suss of the IRA's motives and sincerity. There's much more there to consider.

What I meant by:



was when you were on about the population decline of the prods. I do suppose you weren't just blaming the republicans for the population decrease, but none the less, what has happened to our people was nowhere near as tragic, nor even close to the genocide that has plagued the Native American Indians. If you wonder if I sympathise with them, OF COURSE!!!! I was referring to the Native Americans that were slaughtered or enslaved. Our people have seen their share of sorrows and heartaches, deaths and such, but my point was you can't compare the two as they are nowhere near close in comparison.

I still don't see how you say that prods were at Ireland before anybody else, but I'm going to leave that for now as I've been working for 16 hours today and I'm knackered and want to choose what I want to write novels about in here lol

As for fenian ... I know tyvm lol ... My point was I don't take being called a fenian or a taig as an insult. People can think they're slaggin me all they want, but in all honesty, I can't help but laugh at them most of the time (and Patrick, no comments about past events please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) ) lol

Parades, parades, parades ... you're right about the fact I'm away atm during the time when they're actually giving us a wee break ... but when a first got back here to the states, was well before Oct (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The saddest bit is, I'll probably be back just in time to see them all start again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) They were stopped from marching down there, but the thing is .. they weren't stopped from doing it at all.

.... that was in referrence to the PC not you Setanta (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

oh and by the way ... KYA = kick your arse (ass) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and KHA is his or hers ... KMA is actually kiss not kick lol

A 'Celtic' tattoo can be anything. Many unionist and Protestant people I have known have had Celtic tattoo designs. Unless its the football club you're talking about of course. The sensible thing to do, if you don't want to advertise your political allegience at a polling station, is to cover up those tattoos! Unless you've got one on your forehead, you could easily get away with it.




Well I didn't really say that. What I think I said was that Protestantism didn't come into existance until the 1500s. Religion isn't a genetic thing. My own family converted to Protestantism hundreds of years ago, but they didn't suddenly appear in Ireland - my family can be traced in Ireland waaaaaay back before then. And I'm not talking about the Normans either!




Hey - I'm from a Protestant background, and I'm a unionist.. but I like a wee break from the parades too you know! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I do think there are far too many of them.. but that's their perrogative I guess.




Ah ok.. well in reference to your original question then... If someone kicked my arse and then there were parades, I wouldn't necessarily tie the two together.

Though I am aware of certain parades in which the members or followers have chanted about certain attrocities in an unflattering and menacing way.

Let me tell you this: I believe that the Orange Institution HAS to get its house in order. There are too many bigots and nutters that have been accepted as members. Its *supposed* to be a religious organisation - they need to take much better control of it, and accept more responsibility.

Hmmm, well I have been reading some of this thread for a while now (and by the way, Ryan was clear in his post way back when, apparently you just did not read closely enough to get what he was saying. Imagine that, not seeing what's in front of your face.) Now that you and I are "friends" and understand one another, I must object to what you say about the "Orange Institution" which is really the Orange Order and dates back to William of Orange and the Battle of the Boyne. Hmm...the marches celebrate that (as well as the Glorious Revolution), which celebrate the killing of Catholics. (Oh...and just SOME people do naughty things...yeah right, it's the basis of the damn march...get a clue to the clue bus! The whole concept of the march is disgusting) And you trivialize the entire thing by "...they need to accept more responsibility?" It's not a puppy we're talking about here... I cannot wait to read what poison you have for me in this little thread. You may think I am an ignorant Yank, however, I am certainly not, I have studied history and politics throughly (including the history of Ireland). But if your past posts are any indication of what might be coming...I think I'll refrain from posting. For those who choose not to be blind will never see. Though don't get me wrong, I'll read it, if it warrants a relpy one will be given, if it's more of the same old you have been espousing, my absence of a reply will be implicit. (Oh, and I hope I was clear enough for you. Unlike Ryan, I write a lot to get a point across, he has the ability to say a lot in few words. But I guess some people need things spelled out for them.)

HELLO LISA!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Its great to hear from you again. I figured Ryan would have you too busy to post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I guess I spend TOO much time thinking when I post something and it tends to lose the original feelings I had at that time. I have been reading these posts and have wanted to reply to them but it would just lead to another slaggin match and nothing can come from that. The word 'trivial' pops into my head while reading it. I think that is why alot of other people havent replied. "Ignore it and it will eventually go away" pops into my head more than anything. WeeIrishDevil has alot more patience than I do and replies regularly. She is Truly Good people and lives around the Chicago area.(not too far from you) Maybe you three could meet sometime. Hell, maybe we should ALL meet sometime. Anyways, good to hear from you again.

Cheers Patrick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I might as well stay where I'm at instead of going back, but I'm still not sure. It would be nice to meet some people from the forum while I know, surely, that I'm going to be here. I also wanted to say a quick hiya to Lisa (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I don't believe that we've met as of yet, but tis nice to see you at the forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well Hello to you too Patrick! (And it's a pleasure meeting you as well Wee Irish Devil (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)) I know what you mean about the thread Patrick...it's just that it was early in the morning and I could not sleep and I think I'd just had enough of the whole thread. (Hee hee...seems we're hijacking it and making it actually worthwhile! LOL) Trivial would be just about the right word...yup. As far as all of us meeting...that would be great but Ryan does have me quite busy. But you see I found time to post early in the morning LOL. Perhaps we should all meet when a certain festival comes to town (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Hopfully we'll have time to go this year. (I've had a bit of a career change and organize special events for a large living history museum...spring, summer and autumn are our busy times (as well as right now)...so we may all be better off meeting at my job! LOL) Anyway, say hello to Cate for me and I think you two are still on my Yahoo!, we can chat for a while sometime! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I love how this has turned into a positive thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Career change is good. As long as you like what you are doing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Werent you a teacher before?
WeeIrishDevil, You said you were working some pretty long hours as well. If you dont mind me asking..What do you do?
Lisa, What does Ryan do? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Speaking of the big upcoming festival...Did you know you CANNOT buy a Guiness anywhere at Irishfest? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Reason being very political (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) Nope, dont want to go someplace where you cant have a Guiness and some Jammies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well, Patrick, I'm actually working for Verizon Wireless, as well as training for In Region Bundling for Quest ... which deals with VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol). Verizon is nice, but I've learned loads about how mobiles work. The only bad thing is that I've gotta go back to shite once am back home lol I wish they would get VZW in Ireland ... would be grand ... the thing is though that VZW would have to pay for the usage of cell sites over there and would be costly for them so they'd probably not have service as cheap as they do here. I actually sit at the phones, but the reason I was working so much is that now - 1 Jan., it is umlimited overtime (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I was actually working 10am - 2am for a week. I was abso knackered (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) The training didn't take long to go through, as it was only 3 weeks total, but I think they should have had training last as long as Cingular (10 weeks) for basically the same information. I spose that we just have to be smarter than the cometition lol I like working with VOIP also. But I like the other job I'm doing much better anyhoo, which I'll tell ya about later (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

As for the way the thread has been ...

It was legit arguements. See, the Irish have been argueing, fighting, and killing each other over these things for centuries. I don't hardly think that it's bad to voice an opinion, and tis the Irish way to argue (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) but for some people that's daily life in Ireland, or as Setanta would prefer, the UK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm sorry if it all seemed a bit wordy, but how does everyone propose that they sway the minds of people? I mean do you assume just because someone is on the opposite side of the tracks that they could never understand or listen? Some of Irelands heroes were English, Protestant and such. The Scots have had a hand in it also. I choose to think that everybody should be working together, but if they cant then you need to find a way to relate to one another so that you can get each other to listen. You can't win a debate by shutting your mouth. You actually have to put yourself out on a line and open your mouth, voice your opinions and make sure others hear so as to draw them in. If people are listening, either way, then that's how you relate, or how you win people over to your view. It can't happen though if the only thing people know how to do is state their side and then shut everyone else up. It's insane really. It's kinda like being a bully ... you KTA and then say how things are going to be and then never give them a chance to speak. Eventually they're gonna come back and hit you twice as hard. People are going to learn how to work together for a while, least till people see that there's some effort being made. Also, what harm comes from trying to get someone to see your point of view? If you can successfully debate then you've got people who have seen or heard it and are better able to understand all points to it. I've seen the political debates there at the states, Bush/Kerry. They were days and lengthly and specifically for getting people to see exactly what their position was and to try to gain the votes of the people. This is no different. It may bore most of you, and that's ok as it's just a forum and something that you read voluntarily and don't actually have to read it, unlike living at the north where it's your life and for some of us have to hear it everyday. It isn't something we can turn our backs on, it isn't something we can ignore as it is in our faces daily. That's why some of us have gotten to the same point you are, only no way out of it. We have/are living it. If you think this thread was bad, then be happy you don't live at the north (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Anyhoo ... enough psychobabble (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Also, think that the debate was finished anyhoo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) really doesn't matter, but it was interesting in the fact so many people actually read it. I wonder who feels one way or the other and who has or hasn't listened (read)?

Yes Patrick, I was a teacher, yes indeed, too many private schools and too much parental control for my tastes. It appears that no child is ever wrong and everyone's child is the smartest around. And if my grades I gave them (grades they earned) did not reflect that...the grades I gave them were changed by "The Powers the Be" That got a bit old after a while. What does Ryan do? Well, besides his full time job of keeping me happy (which he does quite well)...he's got another one...I'll let him tell you about it himself. He's working close to 10 hours a day most of the week though...so I'm not sure when he'll have time.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Well, he'll get around to...I'll make sure. Yeah...Ryan was a bit more than miffed about the lack of Guinness as well...it's not that Miller is not a fine beer...it's just not GUINNESS.
WeeIrishDevil, that VOIP stuff is really cool! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And as far as the thread goes, I completely see where you are coming from...it's just when I see weak points trying to back an arguement (or misinformation) it gets a bit taxing at time. But I'm all for a good discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Voice over IP, Yes indeed, I know it well. I cable, test, and certify branch offices for VOIP. Thats what I have been doing everytime they send me out to New England. I extend the T-1 lines, the PRI ckts, the WAN ckts, and the CO lines into the suite from the Demarc. Tested, heated up and programmed into the Cisco routers and/or the new telephone system. I cable all the new work stations, managers offices etc... There is protocol for how each step of the relos have to go. I have done so many of them, I know exactly what has to happen and when. Maybe thats why they send me all the way out there. This is just one of the hats I wear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
One of the other hats I wear has a LOWES on the front of it. I am an Installer for them. I remodel kitchens, bathrooms(and every other room in the house)I install windows, doors, floors, and appliances.
Thats why I was asking what Ryan did. I had told him if he ever needed work to let me know. I would teach him all I know about communications if he was interested. That goes for remodeling too. I know its hard to believe but the name of my company is Celtic Contractors (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Stop by and take a look if you want http://www.celticcontractors.com