Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness publicly accused by Michael McDowell of being members of "Army Council" of the IRA.

I think it's relatively safe to say that we're seeing a pre-emptory move by the powers that be to link the Sinn Fein leadership to the robbery with hopes of prosecution. At the very least this is an attempt to further marginalize Sinn Fein with the hopes that more malleable political leaders will arise to take the helm of the republican movement.

You smell that? It's the Good Friday Accords burning to dust.

Perhaps- the interesting side to this is that it's the police in the south who are doing this- no one can jump on the usual "It's all the fault of the Brits" bandwagon here.

I doubt that the Irish government think that they can get more malleable leaders of Sinn Fein/ IRA, but they may think that this will reverse the growth in support for the extreme groups on both sides.

Talking about the Free State, I have been more than once shocked by their attitude and I am sorry I cannot explain it.


Anyway I think the whole situation is getting quite worrying. Things will not go well for any of us, Brits and Irish of all sides. I hope they all get wise soon enough.

Now- now Charlotte- you're not old enough to remember the Free state. :P

It may be difficult to accept, but it is the view of all parties ( apart from Sinn Fein/IRA) that continued gangsterism combined with the bank raid should indeed debar them from the political/peace process.

I think you are correct that the situation is getting worrying.

I kept the words "free state" on purpose.

I suppose the question is whether or not the IRA leadership is as passionate about violent revolution now as they were when they were young men. War is a young man's game and perhaps there's too much money to be made in the vast criminal network that is now in place to endanger it with political violence.

The thing that worries me now is that there has been an introduction of so much uncertainty. Uncertainty makes people do strange and unexpected things, and those things aren't typically for the better. In the end I hope I can chalk my misgivings up to some weird realist political philosophy.

While I'm wishing, I want a pony :blink:

What is strange is that the IRA should have taken such a risk with a useless robbery (I was told the money couldn't be used as it's all Nothern Irish notes, so can't be used elsewhere and can't be used there for obvious reasons.). I have no idea what they are at and what they mean to do now. What I know is that there is huge tension on both sides. Tension is no good. Let someone sneeze and they are all shooting.

From what I understand of the details a lot of the cash was comprised of used notes and thereby more difficult to trace and easier to 'clean'. Even if you can't use the new notes for fear of capture, nearly any percentage of $50 million (US) is quite the tidy sum.

I think the whole situation in stating that Adams and Mc Guinness are members of the Army Council is just a method to stigmatize them. The establishment fears Sinn Fein now it's getting politically stronger. Both the British and Irish establishment: I think those statings did not happen without the knowledge of the Brits...
The fact is Leinster house is indeed getting worried. And why? Quite absurd really, because SOONER than later, Ireland will be reunified and they consider N.-Ireland as a poisoned "gift"... :ph34r: They should think a bit more about their history. It's not because Ireland got better off these latest decennia with European subsidies, it should forget about it's North. The fact is the Irish (most and and the government) are now in a very easy situation. Ireland is no longer a poor country and thereby it's forgetting its past, its legacy... Why? It's the economy stupid...
The Brits aren't fond of keeping N.-Ireland anymore, they're considering it more and more as a "trouble"-some place...
I wonder what'll be next... :ph34r:

Very contradictory post- you say

I have t said this before as has Tony Blair- Britain has no special interest in NI.
So we agree- the British Government would be happy to disentangle itself from the North.
Unfortunately your earlier statement

Implies that my government is trying to destroy the peace process. Which doesn't tie in with the first statement.

Interesting that you note that the South may not want union with the North. I wouldn't disagree.

Ah come on, you're twisting my words! :blink:

>The Brits aren't fond of keeping N.-Ireland anymore, they're considering it more and more as a "trouble"-some place...


You're entangling matters. Where did I say Britain hasn't got any interests in N.I.? What I meant is: Those interests may become quite expensive, so far those interests are getting TOO expensive, at the point they may be not interesting at all anymore... Quite a difference it seems to me...
I said Leinster house wouldn't want a reunification with N.I., not the Irish population! The establishment remember? Read my words! :wacko:

What interests do we have there?

As for the south- I think your distance from the Island lends enchantment- the people of the south saw the German reunification and it give them pause.

Should a or shouldn't a say summit here bout this ... erm ... lemme see ... spose am here so a might as well do so :)

People can accuse others of pariticipation, leadership, or anything else, even if true, is only to make sure that they discredit certain people's reputation. In their accusations, some will believe and others will be outraged. Then again .. there'll be some that believe and are still outraged. Personally ... who cares if they are or aren't .. that truly isn't the issue. The GFA was nothing more than a few politicians that came together to kinda, sorta appear to want peace. The truth is both sides have always been searchin for any reason they could find to turn it against the other, but the IRA have been more than patient. The Brits never did follow the letter of the laws in which they stated in the GFA ... they failed to hold up to their end of a rather, erm, ummmmm, dodgy bargain. I think the IRA had been more than patient and willing to try a peaceful solution, but now ... there's been quite a renewed sense of obligation on the part of people in the north. There's many who had stayed out of this, but because of all the recent events, accusations and such, they have now decided they want to join what was to be disbanded. I find this whole thing quite interesting. You've got people on both sides instigating more war, and yet so many claim to want peace. Truthfully .. the north will prolley never see peace, but will become more peaceful once the British remove themselves and stop occupying the North. There will still be fighting, most assuredly, but will be at the Oirish own expense. If the cost is more than the crown can bear ... why no leave now?

As for the south ... ave never seen so much ignorance on the part of the youth. Once, Dublin way, there was a 17 year old boy that a seen .. he asked me a question bout where a was from ... to which a replied the north ... he asked IF they were still fightin up there ... a was no only stunned, but was quite angry at the youth .... a toul him the battle still wages on and prolley always will. He asked me then wa a thought bout the situation ... so a toul him :) and to my surprise ... the next words outta his mouth shocked me .. horrified me actually ... he claimed he didn't even know there was any more catholics in the north.

I don't think that the south is against reunification per se ... but a do think that they are more or less ignorant of whats been goin on in the north. How can people make an informed decision when they don't even know the facts? I'm no sayin that everyone in the south is like that ... there's many that support either side and know what's goin on ... but truth be told .. a think the greater majority knows fu** all about the political situation in the north. The amount of info they get is in the media, and lets face facts peeps .. the media has never been kind towards the catholics, nationalists, republicans, or anyone that doesn't want British occupation in the north .... we're all considered terrorist and the south, for the most part, believes it.

I think that if more people started seeing things the way that Michael Collins seen it, we might actually have won freedom for the north, but they want to continue in a nonsensical way, then so be it. A just hope that if a don't see reunification, or at the least our freedom from British Occupation, before a die, that our future generations will.